Info-Atari16 Digest Wed, 11 Dec 91 Volume 91 : Issue 654 Today's Topics: Atari books Ataris and modems DC? (5 msgs) Dungeon Master - HELP Flavours of ST MiNT request New Replacement mice for the ST PI2 pictures Rufus106 Sozobon V2.0 crc fault?? SPECTRE GCR TOS 1.4 doesn't register double mouse click using 4096 color palette on the STE Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU. Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored. If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please contact the redistributor, not us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 10 Dec 91 05:35:56 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!comp.vu w.ac.nz!actrix!Roger.Sheppard@arizona.edu (Roger Sheppard) Subject: Atari books To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca writes: > In <1991Dec08.155140.16158@actrix.gen.nz>, Roger Sheppard writes: > >In article <51340@cup.portal.com> Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes: > >> Following up on the question someone asked about what Atari books are > >> still available, it turns out I was wrong about Compute! Books dropping > >> their entire Atari line. They've only dropped most of them. > > Bob, really, this is about all the books of any worth they produced. > The others were real beginner level books, which were quickly put out > of date by new magazine and new languages. After all, could you imagine > a market for a book on programming in ST Basic? > > > > >Some one else posted here about the TOS book and a 'C' book, with a phone > >No. to bye them from, I have tried to order from 'Compute' before with out > >any luck at all.. > > > >Does any one know if the 'C' book is any good...? > > The 'C' book is > Learning C > Programming graphics on the Atari ST > and Amiga. > ISBN 0-87455-064-5 > > It deals mainly with 3-d graphic programming in C and has a > few good algorithms, but no Gem at all. Not a book for everybody, > and making programs that were portable between the ST and Amiga > invloved a bit of inelegant coding. > The initial shared library code is wrong in the book, so unless > you want to learn C the hard way, it's not a beginners book. > > -- > John Henders jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca > Vancouver,B.C NOTE: THIS IS NOT THE BOOK THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY POSTED, and not the book that I was refering to..!!!.. Its a all new book on 'C', can the person that posted the info in the past please post again...Thanks...! -- *** Roger W. Sheppard * Roger.Sheppard@bbs.actrix.gen.nz *** *** 85 Donovan Rd * * GEnie. R.SHEPPARD5 *** *** Kapiti At least I don't Flicker, *** *** New Zealand.. * not like a dying light globe *** ------------------------------ Date: 11 Dec 91 14:15:51 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!comp.vuw.ac.nz!act rix!Steve.Withers@arizona.edu (Steve Withers) Subject: Ataris and modems To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Can anyone tell me what sort of modem should be used with an Atari ST or other Atari? I have an external 2400bps modem that has been used with an IBM compatible PC. Can this modem be used with Atari computers? What special adapters - if any - may be required? Who sells them? How much? Are the voltages compatible? Logically, I can't see why a Hayes compatible modem can't be used with any computer that has the appropriate software. Am I correct in thinking that? What comms software is available in the public domain for Ataris? Where can I get it? Can Ataris read DOS formatted 3.5" diskettes? I have been told I may have to format a 720K, 3.5" floppy as a 360K, single-sided floppy. Is this correct? There are a lot of questions there, but If I can get the answers, I'll be able to make a local Atari user a happy modemer - maybe..... Please reply by mail. If there is interest, I'll post a summary. Thanks Steve -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Did you vote for them? I didn't vote for them. Did you vote for them?" Steve Withers - Wellington, New Zealand Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz / swithers@tornado.welly.gen.nz ------------------------------ Date: 11 Dec 91 16:39:58 GMT From: uvm-gen!griffin!pegram@uunet.uu.net (Robert B. Pegram) Subject: DC? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu From article <1991Dec11.023518.12619@CS.ORST.EDU>, by thaanuj@prism.CS.ORST.EDU (John Thaanum): > I would like to see something like this, with the entire character set, > because I can never find the control-keys I want. It would be rather > cool to be able to access the characters for the fuji, Bob Dobbs, etc, > without having to search all up and down the keyboard. > > Just a suggestion. > > > -- > +--------------------------------------------------------+ > John Thaanum thaanuj@prism.cs.orst.edu > "A better tomorrow takes your best today..." -Triumph > +--------------------------------------------------------+ I have an old accessory that allows you to click in all extended characters - I will check if it's free or shareware tonight. If so, I'll check for it on atari.archive and upload it if it isn't. bye, Bob Pegram -- pegram@uvm.edu or .!uvm-gen!pegram ------------------------------ Date: 11 Dec 91 15:51:44 GMT From: mcsun!uknet!stl!dsbc!ozz!jas@uunet.uu.net (Jason Morris) Subject: DC? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <200@ozz.oasis.icl.co.uk> you write: > Jason Morris writes: > > > > Have you considered how large a window containing the entire character set > > would have to be. You could scale it down ad infinitum of course, but to be > > able to accurately "type" on it there would be limits, and I think it would be > > pretty big. Kind of makes it difficult to see the application you're using! > > > > Oh, I don't know - how about this: > > +------------------------------+ > |1234567890-~ [shift button]| > |qwertyuiop@[ [alt button] | > |asdfghjkl;:] [ctrl button] | > |\zxcvbnm,./ | > +------------------------------+ > > ie, just one display of the keyboard. When the shift button is clicked, all > the other keys change to their shifted values. Same with alt and ctrl. > Maybe one extra key [ctrl character] which pops up a keypad to allow people > to enter control characters by number. > > Steve > I think you missed the key word "accurately". Sure you can make it that small, but the closer the "keys" are to each other, the more mistakes you will make, and the smaller you make the character icons, the more likely you are to miss altogether. I'm talking about input at any kind of speed of course. If you don't believe me, try reading comp.sys.palmtops sometime (I know you've got nothing better to do Steve!). Of course, it may help the psychologically challenged such as yourself 8-). Just my 2 ECUs worth, Jas. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Jason Morris jas@oasis.icl.co.uk +44 344 424842 ext 2662 | | ICL Computers Ltd, BRA01, Lovelace Rd, Bracknell, Berks, England. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HELLO, I'm a signature virus! Join in the fun and copy me into yours! How did that get there? ------------------------------ Date: 11 Dec 91 16:02:28 GMT From: mcsun!uknet!stl!dsbc!ozz!srs@uunet.uu.net (Steve Strong) Subject: DC? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Jason Morris writes: > > I think you missed the key word "accurately". Sure you can make it that > small, but the closer the "keys" are to each other, the more mistakes you will > make, and the smaller you make the character icons, the more likely you are to > miss altogether. I'm talking about input at any kind of speed of course. If > I wasn't intending that the characters be that size (refering to my lovely, but alas deleted, diagram), just showing that it wasn't really neccesary to have the whole character set displayed at once. By using the shift, alt and control buttons, the display can be reduced in size by a factor of 4. >> Jason Morris writes: >>> vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv >>> Have you considered how large a window containing the entire character set >>> would have to be. > Steve > Just my 2 ECUs worth, > > Jas. > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > | Jason Morris jas@oasis.icl.co.uk +44 344 424842 ext 2662 | > | ICL Computers Ltd, BRA01, Lovelace Rd, Bracknell, Berks, England. | > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > HELLO, I'm a signature virus! Join in the fun and copy me into yours! > > How did that get there? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steve Strong - email srs@oasis.icl.co.uk | Views expressed are not those voice 44 344 424842 extn 2279 | of ICL. I think. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HELLO, I'm a signature virus! Join in the fun and copy me into yours! ------------------------------ Date: 11 Dec 91 16:39:52 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!caen!uwm.edu!linac!uchinews!spssig!bobh ays@arizona.edu (Bob Hays) Subject: DC? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu And, to add on to Jason's last comment, did we forget about scrolling windows? I knew we had... (done with my sweater on and my sneakers on my feet:-). Size is not the issue, the issue is can a GEM app. be written that accepts (probably) button presses and then translates them into the appropriate key sequences for some program. The appropriate questions in my book are: 1) Can keystrokes be forced to other applications that are running? 2) How can such a program be made useful, ie. perform a sequence of key events and then pass the sequence to the program? As an accessory, you have control of horizonal and vertical - how can we get the key events out there? 3) And I am sure there are more:-) But, size is not a problem. Have fun! - Bob -- ========================================================================= The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc. bobhays@spss.com Phone: (312) 329-3522 Bob Hays Fax: (312) 329-3657 ------------------------------ Date: 11 Dec 91 18:21:03 GMT From: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!mc4c+@cs.roch ester.edu (Mark Choi) Subject: DC? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In-Reply-To: References: Sharon, Actually, as a pit student, I am sure you know that this is not at all novel, but is the keycaps desk accessory for the mac. It is included with every mac. Why, because it is USEFUL to be able to see what characters are available in the extended character set, and because TOS is retarded in regard to how these should be entered into text. The mac is much more intelligent in this regard. There are da's for the Atari that sort of do the job, but you have to enter ascii values. Did anyone think when they decided to do it this way. Computers are for users, not programmers, and any programmer who designes software that assumes the user is a computer wiz, deserves to go out of business with a burst of flame. (except if they are making programming tools!) Unfortunatly, much of the software for th ST falls into this catagory. User unfriendly, yes, compared to the PC, GEM and TOS are far superior, but it is 1991. Some folk claim about Apples thought police, but it would have been nice if Atari and DRI had put a little work into this regard so we would not have had kludgy interfaces like that for LDW Power. There is nothing wrong with standard user interfaces across programms, if they do not get in the way. If people followed the GEM guidlines, the interface would not have gotten in the way. Unfortunatly in the Atari market, too many maverick programmers decided to do it their own way, and so a lot of the benefit of a GUI is tossed out the window. Oh well. mark ------------------------------ Date: 11 Dec 91 18:30:30 GMT From: infonode!ingr!b11!jmack@uunet.uu.net (Cery McCormick) Subject: Dungeon Master - HELP To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I got the book from E. Arthur Brown. It is very good. For each level of the dungeon there are three levels of hints; depending upon how much of a hint you want. The complete map of the dungeon is included along with some excellent general guidelines (not cheating) for winning the game. As for those pesky knights, those mon (sp?) level fireballs will turn him into a pile of armour (I think). I know for a fact that I've killed them by repeated swings of a sword. ------------------------------ Date: 9 Dec 91 15:32:23 GMT From: mcsun!uknet!axion!tharr!mark.lowton@uunet.uu.net (Mark Powell) Subject: Flavours of ST To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Chuck Grimsby wrote in <691852239.0@tdkt.kksys>: >In a message of , Neil Forsyth (1:282/31) writes: > >In article <691329105.0@tdkt.kksys> Chuck.Grimsby@tdkt.kksys.com > >(Chuck Grimsby) writes: >>Nice list, 'cept that the original ST's had TV Modulators in them. They went >>out with the ST-F's, which were the next version after the original ST came >>out. > >We have a circa 1985 520 ST here with no internal disk drive and no > >modulator either. The function keys are a slightly darker grey than the case >I did a bit of checking through some old mags I have here, and you two are >right, and I was wrong. The original STs _did_not_ have RF Modulators in them >or Floppy drives. The original list _was_ correct. > >Sorry for the confusion. I bought my ST in 1986 in the UK. It has no internal drive and no modulator. However, it the manual that came with my ST, inside the back cover, it gave a list of all the ST's available. The first ST in this list is the 260ST with 256K of RAM. Did these things really exist? Maybe Allan Pratt can comment? BTW where is TOS 1.4 available from? I've been away from this group for about 18 months :-( Mark Powell UUCP: mark.lowton@tharr.uucp UK: tharr!mark.lowton or tharr!lowton!mark WORLD: ...!uunet!mcsun!ukc!tharr!mark.lowton Note: you *must* put 'tharr' somewhere in the address. Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: 5 Dec 91 22:36:50 GMT From: mcsun!uknet!axion!tharr!zebedee!geoffc@uunet.uu.net (Geoffrey Coan) Subject: MiNT request To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <29302B04.12050@ics.uci.edu> jvance@bonnie.ics.uci.edu (Joachim Vance) writes: > >In article <1991Nov19.155121.291@uwovax.uwo.ca> 7103_2622@uwovax.uwo.ca (Eric Smith) writes: > >> > >>I'll be releasing my tcsh port Real Soon Now (I'll put it up for ftp on > >>atari.archive). > > > >Yes!! :) I've become a tcsh addict over the last two years, and I would love > >to have it on my home machine. Keep up the good work! > > Here's a nod from me too! I've been waiting for a tsch port for a long time. > Oh what a wonderful thing it will be, to have tsch on my ST. :) > I know this is a silly question, but what does tsch offer over more common shells such as sh (Bourne shell), csh (C Shell) or ksh (Korn shell). I've been using the ksh on unix recently and I don't know how I ever did without it - I believe there's a mint port at atari.archive - anyone know the name ? I suppose the other question is, is tsch better (or worse) than ksh ? Cheers Geoffrey -- are you ready to SKYDIVE ?? Geoffrey Coan well all right then, if you say so ... ..!ukc!axion!tharr!zebedee!geoffc <- UUCP'd from my ST via tharr; *free* UK public access to Usenet 0234 841503 -> ------------------------------ Date: 11 Dec 91 18:59:09 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!olivea!isc-br! michaela@arizona.edu (Michael Albo) Subject: New Replacement mice for the ST To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I am posting this for a friend: To any ATARI ST owner in need of a good replacement mouse for their computer. Brand new Keytronic 2 button mouse - $25 call Jerry Shaw (509) 928-8009 ------------------------------ Date: 11 Dec 91 07:35:01 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!tamsun!tamuts!n160ao@arizona .edu (Mark Lehmann) Subject: PI2 pictures To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I have seen this question before, but I never saw an answer. While I was desperately looking for a way to daisy chain two Supra Hard drives, I found an old document refering to pictures that SUPRA made. These picutres are the figures for the Supra document. Unfortunately, I don't have DEGAS and I don't have a picture printing program. Please E-mail me. Thanks much, Mark Lehmann n160ao@tamuts.tamu.edu ------------------------------ Date: 10 Dec 91 05:46:51 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!waikato.a c.nz!comp.vuw.ac.nz!actrix!Roger.Sheppard@arizona.edu (Roger Sheppard) Subject: Rufus106 To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Well Rufus 106 will not work as a ACC, so what has gone wrong with this patched version..?? All I get is bombs at boot up, was run from a Floppy with no Auto programs and no othere ACC's ..What Gives..!! -- *** Roger W. Sheppard * Roger.Sheppard@bbs.actrix.gen.nz *** *** 85 Donovan Rd * * GEnie. R.SHEPPARD5 *** *** Kapiti At least I don't Flicker, *** *** New Zealand.. * not like a dying light globe *** ------------------------------ Date: 11 Dec 91 18:46:14 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!thelake!steve@a rizona.edu (Steve Yelvington) Subject: Sozobon V2.0 crc fault?? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu [In article <1991Dec11.142249.2194@darwin.ntu.edu.au>, topfm@darwin.ntu.edu.au writes ... ] > It is my UUDecoder that is reporting bad crc... Once again, with feeling: UUENCODING/DECODING DOES NOT USE CRC'S. If there's something bizarre about your decoder, move the files to your ST, name them properly (or concatenate them into a single file, in the proper order), and use UUCODER to decode them. Its error messages aren't perfect, but they won't tell you something silly like "CRC error" when there aren't any CRCs to check. Here is how uuencoding works. table !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>? @ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]~_ ~~ \ This is a translation table that helps data get through bad/stupid ASCII/EBCDIC gateways. Smart decoders check this table for damage. Stupid decoders ignore it. begin 644 SCBIN20.LZH ~ ~ ~ | | \filename | \Unix permissions mask, ignored on the ST and PC \file begins M'#\M;&@Q+0<= O.@ D)QA%B !D%2+E144* Q]FFQF'MBK!@R?:NNUC1=z ~~ ~~ |\ / | | encoded data........................................... / | \Byte that encodes the line length | sequence check Many encoded lines follow, with sequence checks decrementing until they hit 'a' and then rolling over to 'z' again. The file may end with either an 'end' line, or a line that looks like this: include SCBIN20.uab There are some antique decoders that do not handle the include directive. If you have one such decoder, then you've just identified a way to gain some disk space. The encoded data is produced by using the following algorithm: #define ENC(c) (((c) & 077) + ' ') /* * output one group of 3 bytes, pointed at by p, on file f. */ outdec(p) register char *p; { register int c1, c2, c3, c4; c1 = *p >> 2; c2 = (*p << 4) & 060 | (p[1] >> 4) & 017; c3 = (p[1] << 2) & 074 | (p[2] >> 6) & 03; c4 = p[2] & 077; putc(ENC(c1), outp); putc(ENC(c2), outp); putc(ENC(c3), outp); putc(ENC(c4), outp); } In English: What you're doing here is taking a group of three bytes, spreading their bits out across a set of four bytes so that you have four nice, low binary numbers, then adding the value of a space -- the lowest printable character -- to each result. This gives you four printable text characters where you used to have three (possibly unprintable) binary values. Decoding simply grabs four bytes, subtracts ' ' from each value, and shoves the bits together into three bytes, restoring the original binary data. There is hardly any error-checking in this process. Recent variations of uue/uud pay attention to the last byte in the line, and expect it to be part of a consistent sequence. I believe that most uudecoders also pay attention to the line length encoded in the first byte of the line, so a line that has been shortened by a transmission error may produce an error message. Either way, the data segment may be garbled with no effect on the decoder so long as the line length isn't affected. If you have a bad file, you can get a retransmission by dealing with archive-server@twitterpater.Eng.SUN.COM -- if you can get through. The eng.sun.com domain seems to be dead at the moment. :-( -- Steve Yelvington, Marine on St. Croix, Minnesota I ate two helpings of lutefisk ... and lived to tell the tale. ------------------------------ Date: 11 Dec 91 18:59:44 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!ux1.c so.uiuc.edu!roma!wmagro@arizona.edu (William Magro) Subject: SPECTRE GCR To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article , jartsu@nic.funet.fi (Jartsu) writes: |> > I have a 520ST upgraded to 2.5 Meg and am considering adding the Spectre. |> |> You will soon run out of memory... I disagree. I have 2.5 Meg in my machine, and with Spectre I typically have Multifinder plus three other programs running simultaneously. Rarely do you need more than three apps in memory at once. DTP prog, plus paint prog, plus terminal for background download, for example. I would like 4Meg, but it is purely a luxury now. Some of the big mac paint programs want 1.5-2M, but without color there isn't much advantage to using these instead of a 600K paint program. --Bill ------------------------------ Date: 11 Dec 91 12:07:58 GMT From: mcsun!uknet!yorkohm!minster!mjl-b@uunet.uu.net Subject: TOS 1.4 doesn't register double mouse click To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article jmw@lad.med.utas.edu.au (John Mark Williams) writes: >Now that I've _finally_ upgraded to TOS 1.4 I discover that anything >resembling a double mouse click in my sequencer, Steinberg Pro-24, gets >interpreted as two separate single clicks. This renders large portions >of the program unusable. At current prices it would be cheaper to buy >another computer to run Pro-24 on rather than buy a new sequencer, like >C-Lab or Cubase, but it'd be simpler if there was some workaround or fix. >Can anyone help? TOS 1.4 mouse response is much faster than in 1.0 or 1.2. In order to get around the slowness of waiting for a double click pre TOS 1.4, some programs set the double click speed to its highest value. On TOS 1.4, this means that you have to double click _extremely_ quickly (I have a card game program that has this problem). I think that this is what is happening with Pro-24 -- have you called Steinberg and asked for help? >John M Williams, Faculty of Medicine, University of Tasmania >J.M.Williams@med.utas.edu.au Mathew | Mathew Lodge | "Baldrick, are the words 'I have a cunning plan' | | mjl-b@minster.york.ac.uk | heading towards this conversation with ill | | Summer: lodge%alsys@uknet | deserved confidence?" -- Blackadder III | ------------------------------ Date: 11 Dec 91 16:17:07 GMT From: mcsun!uknet!stl!dsbc!ozz!srs@uunet.uu.net (Steve Strong) Subject: using 4096 color palette on the STE To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Frank.Moehle@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de (Frank Moehle) writes: > sslee@micromed.net.netcom.com (Steven Lee) writes: > > >Is there a program available (PD or commercial) that will > > 1. Display GIF pictures using the 4096 color palette on the STE > > 2. Display Spectrum pics using the 4096 color palette > > 3. Convert GIF pics to Spectrum format using 4096 color palette > > dmj_gif version 2.0 from atari.archive.umich.edu will at least serve point > 1 and 3 , maybe also 2, from your list Does this program: a. Dislpay the GIF using 16 colours from the choice of 4096 or 512 colours from 4096 in Spectrum format or b. Use all 4096 colours (if needed) on the screen at once? Steve -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steve Strong - email srs@oasis.icl.co.uk | Views expressed are not those voice 44 344 424842 extn 2279 | of ICL. I think. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HELLO, I'm a signature virus! Join in the fun and copy me into yours! ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ******************************