Info-Atari16 Digest Fri, 6 Dec 91 Volume 91 : Issue 642 Today's Topics: Atari's Cartridge port??? (2 msgs) Atari Spirit GEM ain't so bad! Intermittent Boot Problem on MEGA4 Is anyone out there? More on TT prices RSC file documentation??? Rufus 1.06 Rumors on the 520STe... Should someone buy an ST now? STEs ST Games for sale (UK only) ST on stage test UnixWindows Why ASV Is A Dead No Future Product Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU. Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored. If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please contact the redistributor, not us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 6 Dec 91 14:18:23 GMT From: pa.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!janus.enet.dec.com!rafatjoo@decwrl.dec.com (Bahman Rafatjoo) Subject: Atari's Cartridge port??? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu As promised here is the timing informaion on the ST ROM Cartridge port. The port is mapped to the address range FA0000-FBFFFF, and is decoded to produce two ROM enable signals ROM4 (FA0000-FAFFFF) and ROM3 (FB0000-FBFFFF). For a read (the only operation allowed) the timing of the signals on the connector is as follows: A1-A15 -------------- LDS/UDS %%%%%%%%%%___________________%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ROM4/ROM3 %%%%%%%%%___________________%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Address valid to LDS/UDS On: 60nS LDS/UDS On to ROM3/ROM4 On: 10nS LDS/UDS On time: 280nS LDS/UDS Off to ROM3/ROM4 Off: 10nS ROM3/ROM4 Off to address invalid: 140nS Here, 'On' means low and 'Off' is High. Hope this is useful. Bahman. ------------------------------ Date: 6 Dec 91 18:55:49 GMT From: infonode!ingr!b11!jmack@uunet.uu.net (Cery McCormick) Subject: Atari's Cartridge port??? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Dec5.114052.2142@darwin.ntu.edu.au>, topfm@darwin.ntu.edu.au writes: > Can any-one help me with this. > > Looking at the cartridge port of the ST i can find 16 data connections > but only 15 addresses. > > I want to be able to both read and write to the cartridge port. Also I can > find no reference to the speed of the cartridge port. > > Rob. The lowest address bit (A0) is omitted since there are two signals /UDS and /LDS to indicate which byte is valid. As for writing to the cartridge port, it can't be done directly. The MMU causes a BUS ERROR (or something like that) if you try. You can use a scheme where in the process of reading the cartridge port, part of the address used becomes address and/or data for an address on the cartridge plug in board. Then logic on the board performs the actual write. I've been successfull at this technique. It's slower, but it works. - J. Cary McCormick ------------------------------ Date: 6 Dec 91 09:10:09 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!lapis.labmed.um n.edu!davidli@arizona.edu Subject: Atari Spirit To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <51311@cup.portal.com>, Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes: >>Is Analog magazine still going???????? What about that other one, >>I forget the name, oh yah, Antic (aka: Antique), is that still >>around? > > > Nope... Atari Corp. killed ANALOG magazine years ago, just like they > killed ANTIC and more recently START magazine. They also killed > ROM magazine, and ST Applications. Bob isn't being quite truthful with you here, of course. ANALOG/ST Log magazine was 'killed' by Larry Flint Publications. It was allegedly making a profit when it was axed. Very nice articles and reviews, great C programming column (which Clayton Walnum later turned into his first C programming book for the ST). They had some good programs in the magazine, including the first release of OPUS (which later got rewritten and then released as ShareWare - a fine spreadsheet at a relatively low price). I don't know if the magazine programs are still on CompuServe or not. ANTIC magazine was 'killed' by the lack of enough 8-bit advertisers to support a full-blown magazine. Actually, it was moved into START magazine, a sign that the company, ANTIC, was having cash-flow problems. START magazine was 'killed' by the parent corporation -- there is currently some talk going around about a class-action suit against the publisher(s) in order to recoup monies which were allegedly siphoned off into other ventures of the publisher, including an IBM PC magazine. Authors haven't received payment for articles, subscribers haven't been repaid for non-fulfilled subscriptions, etc. ST Applications was 'killed' by success. The publisher didn't have the capital to expand further. ROM magazine - I don't know, is this the Canadian magazine which published several very nice issues and then quietly left the scene? Bob also failed to mention: ST Journal (and its predecessor, whose name I cannot remember, even though I had a subscription and received their excellent disk each month). They failed due to undercapitalization as well, I believe. (People buying issues at the newstand, rather than subscribing, cause most of the problems for new and expanding magazines. The publisher doesn't receive as much money from newstand sales. This isn't a problem if there are a lot of advertisers, but advertisers don't generally sign on unless there is a large subscription base ... and subscriptions don't take off until there are a lot of advertisers. It's a form of catch-22 [obscure reference to the basic philosophy behind the novel by the same name].) Compute! ST - Failed because of lack of solid articles. The magazine was basically an instruction book for the disk they provided each month. Still ticking: Current Notes - an excellent user-group-based magazine that went 'national' back in '86? (I still have the December issue which first appeared on a local newstand .. I'm working from memory here, folks, since I've had an ST since late '86 ). Technical articles galore. Their latest issues are getting better and better. This may become the new US 'glossy'. (Actually, I wouldn't mind subscribing to Current Notes again, rather than buying it at the newstand ...) AtariUser - a little over 1/2 year old now, good articles and reviews, intriguing advertising (anyone used the 'hypercard'-like program distributed by Zephyr?), and fairly inexpensive ... we distribute copies to all of our members at the monthly MAST (Minnesota Atari ST) user group meetings. ST Informer - more years old. An excellent monthly newspaper, complete with fast-breaking news, good reviews and some general articles. I haven't subscribed for a while (tight budget this year with a 10-month old boy around the house), but I fully intend to resubscribe come my birthday in January... ST Connection - a very good source of information on Public Domain, FreeWare and ShareWare programs. Nice reviews. Another of my 'birthday' subscription desires. Any others? -- David Paschall-Zimbel davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu "The most important fact about Spaceship Earth: An instruction book didn't come with it." -- R. Buckminster Fuller ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1991 12:07 EST From: CSULLOGG@crl.aecl.ca Subject: GEM ain't so bad! To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Anyone who bitches about GEM and praises Windows might want to read the October 29 issue of PC Magazine, pg 85. The article "Windows Bugs: Conspiracy of Silence?" just reinforces what I have said many times on the net. PC users are so sensitive about their machines finally being user friendly that they refuse to admit to the crappy parts of Windows. I said it before and I'll say it again. The best part of Windows is Windows applications. The worst part of Windows is Windows itself! Hey, I love my GEM 3. Rock steady. In combintation with MultiGEM and MultiDesk I have a highly productive work environment. Hey, right now I have STalker, STeno, MultiDesk, Pagestream and WordPlus going at the same time on my TT. The last two are running under MultiGEM. From the problems I have seen with Windows on the two machines in the next office (386SX Compaq and AKRAN '486 clone), I wouldn't give up my TT for those boxes with Windows! Gimme GEM anyday! ------------------------------ Date: 6 Dec 91 15:19:15 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs .ohio-state.edu!dhbutler@arizona.edu (David Butler) Subject: Intermittent Boot Problem on MEGA4 To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu >>A friend has left me with his Atari Mega 4 (bought in the STates) to >>test, claiming that it wouldn't boot off his hard disk, and could I >>test it with another hard disk please. Duly done, I find that it will >>boot first time about 20% of the time, about 30% of the time it will >>drag itself up on the 2nd-5th attempt, and the other 50% of the time it >>bombs out. >> >>As it doesn't seem to be a hard disk problem, I'm supposing it's a CPU >>fault. Does this behaviour ring any bells out there? I seem to recall >>earlier messages on faulty chips (though I think they were for the >>ST-FM so I didn't pay too much attention). >> >>Thanks in advance for any info > >Both of my Megas are this way on reboots. They generally boot okay >initially if I power up the hard disk first, wait until it spins up >and completes its internal tests, and then power on the CPU. But >reboots often fail, and the only "solution" I know is to keep >rebooting. Weird, mine does not do this... Oh, yea! Use a disk in drive A with a program or boot-sector that causes the machine to restart every time the program is loaded. This eliminates the problem! Also, I recently picked up a program called "SCUZZY-WAIT", or something like that which creates a disk with a boot sector that causes the ST to monitor the Hard drives until each gives the "ready" signal, and then boots from them. By the way, you really should read my cool .sig file ;-) - David Butler - dhbutler@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu -I can be like a reptile reptile man, I can be like a reptile reptile man, just slide me in just slide me in - - Willie Phoenix - ------------------------------ Date: 6 Dec 91 19:12:14 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!gateway@arizona.edu (ZORGON PLADE ESQ.) Subject: Is anyone out there? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu From: CBS%UK.AC.UKC::MDG2 6-DEC-1991 02:36:38.58 To: PFT033 CC: Subj: Via: [5039534314333514534335]; Fri, 6 Dec 91 2:36 BST Received: from merlin by mercury.ukc.ac.uk with UKC POP3+ id aa14377; 6 Dec 91 2:36 GMT Date: Fri, 06 Dec 91 02:36:18 +0000 From: mdg2@uk.ac.ukc To: PFT033@uk.ac.ukc.sirius =============================================================================== = = = Just a quick message to any "scene" demo-writers... = = = = EMAIL me now! (esp. any D.Force members.) = = = =============================================================================== = mdg2@merlin.ukc.ac.uk (aka Griff of E.I (Inner Circle)) = =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1991 11:43 EST From: CSULLOGG@crl.aecl.ca Subject: More on TT prices To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Here is an example of TT prices locally (cannot post the name of the dealer on USENET). Note: these are Canadian $ prices where $1US = $1.15 CDN so divide by 1.15 to get US equivalent prices (and compare with TOAD's US prices) MEGA STE, 1 meg, 50 meg SCSI $1099 MEGA STE, 1 meg, 80 meg SCSI $1289 MEGA STE, 2 meg, 50 meg SCSI $1164 MEGA STE, 2 meg, 80 meg SCSI $1349 TT030 , 2 meg, 50 meg SCSI $1859 2 meg ST RAM for TT $299 4 meg TT RAM for TT $599 8 meg TT RAM for TT $799 16 meg TT RAM for TT $1399 SC1224 monitor $239 SM124 montior $189 TTM195 monitor $999 (1280x960) PTC1426 monitor $599 SLM 605 laser $1279 ABC 386DX (40 MHz), 2 meg RAM, 1.44 floppy 80 meg 17 ms HD, SVGA graphics (1024x768) DOS 5.0, Windows 3, mouse $1949 Portfolio with 128K card and parallel interface $469 These prices are NOT high. In addition, anyone who wants Atari to survice does not want prices to be any lower. Atari has to earn the $$$ needed to continue development of its product lines. So, Rich Covert, not all places in the world have high Atari prices. For comparison, I saw a Commodore price sheet (info directly from Commodore, not third party) in which SPECIAL dealer pricing was offered on an Amiga 3000 for teachers. As I can best recall, it had 1 meg RAM, VGA monitor, 52 meg HD and "Amiga Professional" soft- ware pack for some $3800 CDN. At those prices, the TT looks FREE! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1991 16:48 EDT From: "Bob Schaedel - Canisius College Computer Center - schaedel@canisius.BITNET" Subject: RSC file documentation??? To: info-atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Where can the documentation for the resource file editor included in the GFA basic 3.5e package be had? Or does anyone know of any good books on this subject? Thanks in advance BobS schaedel@canisius.BITNET ------------------------------ Date: 6 Dec 91 18:09:08 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.n et!yfn.ysu.edu!ysub!psuvm!frmop11!dearn!dmswwu1c!onm07@arizona.edu Subject: Rufus 1.06 To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1951@accucx.cc.ruu.nl>, jeroen@phil.ruu.nl (Jeroen Scheerder) says: >In principle I agree; but after searching *very* hard for recent Rufus >versions >(using archie) and came up with zip. >I found only an 'old' 1.04 that I uploaded unchanged to atari.archive. >Then someone told me a Dutch BBS had 1.06; I uploaded (using Uniterm...) >and read the documentation with the sole purpose of contacting the authors >as Julian Reschke - the famous author of the Profibuch - suggests. >I did not find any way of contacting them - apart from writing to the German >bank the shareware fee must be paid to. What's the problem? Just ask. Michael's email adress is: Michael_Bernards@k2.maus.de It's THAT easy. ___________________________ cut here _____________________________________ Julian F. Reschke, Hensenstr. 142, D-4400 Muenster, Phone: ++49 251 861241 fast eMail: ONM07@DMSWWU1A.BITNET, slow: jr@ms.maus.de (++49 251 77216) ____________________ correct me if I'm wrong _____________________________ ------------------------------ Date: 6 Dec 91 19:38:12 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.o hio-state.edu!linac!unixhub!slacvm!reeves@arizona.edu (Terry Reeves) Subject: Rumors on the 520STe... To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I don't know about now, but the 520 STe I bought a few months ago has 4 Meg's of RAM. As far as I know the only difference between a 520 STe and a 1040 STe is the amount of memory that comes standard. Terry W. Reeves Disclaimer: The above are my own delusions. My reality isn't. ------------------------------ Date: 6 Dec 91 15:01:23 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps. ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!dhbutler@arizona.edu (David Butler) Subject: Should someone buy an ST now? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu > Instead of bickering over which computer is better, I would like to ask > what machine you would recommend to a friend, family member, etc. Limit > the choices to something the average Joe could afford. For example, a > $10,000.00 SPARC station is out of reach to 99.9% of home users(and > overkill too). I don't want to put any hard limit on cost, like say > $3000.00 and under...use your own discretion and explain. (long post about why he would not recomend an Atari delete) Well, as a long-time Atari owner I hate to admit it, but I would not recomend Atari either. I would probably recomend an Amiga first. The support is reasonably good, and Amax II is a pretty solid product (in fact, Amax beat the Spectre at getting system 7 compatibility!) for using mac software. I honestly like the Amiga way more than macs or pc's, especially the Amiga 3000 with the 2.0 "roms" actually called "magic rams" at this point I think. Also, Commodore has been doing VERY well as a company from what I hear. If the person was an obvious novice I would probably recomend a Mac Classic or LC (like you). If they needed engineering applications (CAD etc...) I would reccomend a high-powered DOS machine. But as for an Atari, I just could not recomend one to anyone with the present situation being what it is... rats.... By the way, you really should read my cool .sig file ;-) - David Butler - dhbutler@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu -crawl to you crawl to me writhing in ecstasy into the rhythm into the sea reptile man- - Willie Phoenix - ------------------------------ Date: 6 Dec 91 18:55:05 GMT From: sgi!odin!flatcat.wpd.sgi.com!stever@ames.arpa (Steve Whitney) Subject: STEs To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article , Thorsten_Dietrichkeit@wue.maus.de (Thorsten Dietrichkeit) writes: |> |> t>By the way, does anyone have ST-Es out there? What is the |> difference |> t>between |> t>them and a normal ST? Has any major software been written for the |> ST-E yet? |> |> - 16 MHz and cache |> - new 2.0x desktop |> - VME-bus |> - a socket for an 68881-16 |> - 2 RS-232 ports |> - stereo sound |> - LAN-interface |> - hardware-scrolling |> - 4096 colours |> - memory can be upgraded by SIPs |> |> Thorsten Dietrichkeit |> - germany - This reply is inaccurate. Those are the differences between MEGA STEs and normal STs. Stereo sound, 4096 colors, hardware-scrolling, and upgradable memory are also available on plain STEs. --Steve ------------------------------ Date: 6 Dec 91 17:26:16 GMT From: mcsun!uknet!stl!crosfield!imt@uunet.uu.net (ian taylor) Subject: ST Games for sale (UK only) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Just in time for Christmas, I am clearing my software shelf in time for new purchases...hence this once in a lifetime offer...all software boxed with manuals etc etc I am willing to haggle, or consider exchanges, and I would be happy to lose the lot for about 130 pounds. *five quid* Kult Thrust FOFT Barbarian2 Baal Warhead Starglider Carrier Command Terrorpods Mercenary XenonII Andes Attack Backlash *ten quid* Powermonger StarGliderII Xenomorph Falcon+mission disk Virus Infestation Damocles Corporation Supremacy *fifteen quid* 3D construction kit Flight of the Intruder STOS Basic WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR??? PEOPLE, C'MON!! __Ian__ _______________________________________________________________________________ | Ian Taylor (x4097) | The opinions expressed |"Nothing exists outside of | | Crosfield Electronics | here are not mine. | our perception of reality, | | Hemel Hempstead, UK | God came to me in | and reality is already half| | | a vision and told me | video hallucination" | | imt@cel.co.uk | to do it. | Dr O'Blivion **VIDEODROME**| ------------------------------ Date: 5 Dec 91 22:10:03 GMT From: mcsun!uknet!slxsys!ibmpcug!demon!news@uunet.uu.net (Iain Laskey) Subject: ST on stage To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu You should go and see a Jean Michel Jarre concert. Wall to wall Mega ST's! The ST is the machine of choice amongst the music community with many appearin- g on stage. Tangerine Dream even mention Atari and some Atari people on their album sleeves. I know a great many people in bands and ALL ue Atari's and either Notator or Cubase for sequencing. ############################### # Iain R Laskey # # ilaskey@cix.compulink.co.uk # ############################### ------------------------------ Date: 6 Dec 91 14:37:35 GMT From: mcsun!unido!ubrinf!wowbagger!christof@uunet.uu.net (Christoph Koerner) Subject: test To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Just testing, sorry for wasting bandwidth... ------------------------------ Date: 6 Dec 91 16:07:43 GMT From: noao!ncar!unmvax!nmt.edu!eahsnsr@arizona.edu (Eric A. Hobbs) Subject: UnixWindows To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Dec6.044705.9345@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> chuj@horton.Colorado.EDU (CHU JEFFREY) writes: >This is actually a IBM PC question, but with ST related issues, so >sorry about this. >I have UnixWindows for the ST, but is it also available for the PC? >(like for Win 3.0? or OS/2?). I know it was originally made for >the MAC, but later for the ATARI STs. I sold my monochrome for >the ST and need to use this program, so anyone know of the program >for the PC? > > Thanks, > Jeff > > > Yes there is. At the SIMTEL archive, there is a version of it, and there supposedly is a new version of it for Windows 3.0. ----------- Eric A. HOBBS? eahsnsr@JUPITER.nmt.edu ------------------------------ Date: 6 Dec 91 13:48:07 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!milano!cactus.org!covert@arizona.edu (Richard Covert) Subject: Why ASV Is A Dead No Future Product To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <796@olymp.informatik.uni-bonn.de> volker@sfb256.iam.uni-bonn.de ( Volker A. Brandt ) writes: > > >Wrong. Atari does not support the TT color monitor at this time. There >definitely will be a color X server, and I'm sure it will run on the TT >monitor. And the Unix is really targeted for the new 040 machine due to >be shown at CeBIT 92. OH no, Not Another Dog And Pony Show!! Atari always seems to have an Ace up their sleeve when you get disillushioned about their current products. It is funny how the "Next Atari computer' is going to be the Wonder Of The Century. But then when it comes out, if it comes out, it is years late, and behind the others in tehcnology. The TT's color graphics are at least 2 years behind those on a decent PC clone. and the TT's dual bandwidth (is it 16Mhz or is it 32MHz) shows that Atari really didn't know how to design a FAST CPU in the first place. The TT was originally designed to run at 16MHZ, including all of the PALSs and ASICs. But by the time the TT was ready to be released, once again years late, even Atari realized that a 16MHz TT wouldn't sell at the TT's project prices. So they did a quick patch and doubled the CPU's clock rate. But Atari didn't want to delay the TT any longer, so they didn't change the rest of the TT. Hence, part of the TT runs at 32MHz and part at 16MHz. A real prefession design? Huh? Nope, just another Atari kludge! So Atari is always promising the next machine ass a solution to the bugs in the current machines. Atari's policy on upgrades is to dump the current buggy machine and buy their next buggy machine. Real clever marketing that!! > > >>3) The TT030 is overpriced. > >Look at mac prices and shut up. You can buy a new Mac IIci with A/UX for the same price as a TT030 with say 20 megs of ram and their ASV package. And with the Mac IICi you can run A/UX in color. Try that with the TT030/ASV combo. Of course, these prices are USA prices. I don't know what the relative costs are in Europe. > > >In any store that sells standard SCSI peripherals. > >>6) ASV won't support TT programs. It is a known fact that the ASV >> package can't run TOS/GEM programs. So, that means exiting UNIX, >> which is no simply task in of iis self, and rebooting into TOS. >> All other systems (SCO UNIX and MAC A/UX) allow their native OS >> programs to run from within their UNIX. But once again Atari >> Corp is too little and too late. > >Will this be a drawback for such serious Unix users as you? I believe that you have to compare Atari's ASV to products available for either the PC or the Mac. and both of those platforms offer UNIX with X Windows that support either MSDOS or Mac OS programs from within an X Window. So, yes, not being able to run TOS/GEM programs from within ASV is a serious drawback. Especially since you won't see anything to replace PageStream or Calumus under ASV for the forseeable future. > >>[...] is going to buy ASV just to play games (and we all know that the >>TT030 is just a fancy games machine !!). > >No comment to that ... > The above comment was meant as a tease against folks who take their TTs too seriously. I guess no one understood that though!! Poor joke, I guess. But everyone knows that Atari are just game machines!! >>sincerely yours for the flaming > >No problem, we all know you, Richard!! :-) >-- >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Bitnet: UNM409@DBNRHRZ1 Volker A. Brandt -- Richard E. Covert covert@cactus.org CACTUS ..!cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!covert ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ******************************