Info-Atari16 Digest Sun, 29 Sep 91 Volume 91 : Issue 516 Today's Topics: ARJ? K.I.S.S.! ATARI ON TV digitzing video for DTP Is Maple still available? lharc 2.01e vs. zoo 2.1: some tests (2 msgs) More Lies From Atari? People dumping machines (was.. Atari Mega 2 system.. for sale) Sozobon > 1.2 Spectrum spazz on TOS 1.62/STe? ST System 4SALE SUPERCHARGER and ATARI LASER PRINTER Zoo with GEM interface (Was: Re: ARJ? K.I.S.S.!) (2 msgs) Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU. Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored. If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please contact the redistributor, not us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 29 Sep 91 02:57:34 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!thelake!steve@ariz ona.edu (Steve Yelvington) Subject: ARJ? K.I.S.S.! To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu [In article , bammi@acae127.cadence.com (Jwahar R. Bammi) writes ... ] > In article steve@thelake.mn.org (Steve Yelvington) writes: > >> Any program with a reasonable structure (i.e., main is used as a top-level >> flow-control module) should be easy to GEM-ify by adding >> >> if (argc == 0) >> gem(); >> > arghhh! dont do this. if args are not available, in the gcc > startup module, it still creates argv[0] == "", so the min value > of argc a program will ever see is 1. this is true for acc startup > too. the reason for doing this is that it is required by Posix (in > case you were thinking that these guys just made a random decision :-) Urk ... I've really got to quit taking catnaps at the keyboard. I don't know who sneaked up behind me and typed that. :-) Of course, argc is always > 0, Posix or not. That should read something like this: #if GEM if (argc == 1) gem(); /* alternative user interface */ #endif -- Steve Yelvington, Marine on St. Croix, Minnesota steve@thelake.mn.org (In winter we walk on water) ------------------------------ Date: 28 Sep 91 13:22:45 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!blue moon!bart@arizona.edu (Bart Jaszcz) Subject: ATARI ON TV To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu dhbutler@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David Butler) writes: > This may be old hat, but if anyone ever watched Friday The 13th., The Series > (great show), you should have noticed that every computer in it (at least tha > I ever saw) was an Atari ST! Pretty neat huh? Does anyone know what happened > this show, it used to be on FOX, and I can't find it anymore, makes me wish I > had recorded all the episodes... > > - David Butler - > > "innagaddadaviddababy" Yeah, it was a great show. I remember the episode about the healing glove, where a 1040ST was shown pretty well. The guy who lived on a ship was working on it even, when the action was taking place on that ship. I've seen the ST on a couple of other shows, and even on PBS once or twice. This is from bart@bluemoon.rn.com bart@bluemoon.uucp who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet ------------------------------ Date: 29 Sep 91 09:38:40 GMT From: kawakami%ocf.berkeley.edu@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (John Kawakami) Subject: digitzing video for DTP To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu NetQuestion... I would like to digitize video for use in DTP type applications. How should I go about this? Background and conditions: I'm using an ST as a Mac via Spectre GCR and as a regular ST. I am about to look into purchasing a camcorder from a friend. I see this as a prime opportunity to start using digitized graphics in my documents. However, I am also in the process of phasing out my ST. "Dumping the ST!?!?" Well, sort of. Right now, I have a 520ST, 4MB RAM (JRI SIMM board), GCR, modem, hard drive (Syquest coming soon), printer, and probably a DEKA real soon. I would like to "upgrade" to a MAC by moving all the peripherals to a Mac and using the ST for something else (maybe a BBS or something). The ST would remain a working system, but I would probably stop buying things for it. At this point, I would like to stop purchasing ST specific products. I realize this may not be possible with an ST digitizer. What I would like to do is digitize video, use the graphic in other programs or documents, and print the document out. I would like to import the graphic into Mac Word 4.0, Superpaint 2, and HyperCard on the Mac; WordFlair II and Calamus on the ST. I don't care if the digitizer does only black and white, as long as I can get a good image. More than 16 gray shades would be nice. I would like it if it did not take up the cartridge slot. The software MUST work with a mono monitor. What digitizer is best for me, and what additional software would I need? John Kawakami kawakami@ocf.berkeley.edu ucbvax!ocf.berkeley.edu!kawakami ------------------------------ Date: 28 Sep 91 21:08:40 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!mips!news.cs.indiana.edu!nstn.ns.ca!ac.dal.ca !cordes@arizona.edu Subject: Is Maple still available? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Sep28.164405.23756@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, yegerleh@vivaldi.ecn.purdue.edu (James D Yegerlehner) writes: > Hello Everyone, > Once a long time ago someone in Canada posted that he had bought "Maple" > for his ST at a school bookstore. I have never seen this program > advertised for the ST; does anyone know if it is still available? > Is it a full GEM implementation? > I don't know, I would suspect commandline. > As I understand it, Maple is a math program like Mathematica that does > symbolic and numeric manipulations (as against something like Mathcad > which is entirely numeric). > Right. I think Maple 4.2 was the last ST version produced. John Cordes Dept. of Physics Dalhousie University Halifax, N.S., Canada B3H 3J5 email: cordes@ac.dal.ca ------------------------------ Date: 28 Sep 91 23:03:42 GMT From: noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!lll-winken!aunro!ersys!mforget@arizona. edu (Michel Forget) Subject: lharc 2.01e vs. zoo 2.1: some tests To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu rosenkra@convex.com (William Rosenkranz) writes: [a very long meesage which the system reports as too long to follow-up to. In it, he states several points which I will paraphrase.] 1. Thomas Quester may have violated the porting agreement designed by the original author of Lharc by not supplying source code. You really want that code, don't you? Two points come to mind, though. The first is to question whether or not he made a new agreement with the author of Lharc. He might have, you know. The second is to wonder whether or not changing the language is the same as changing the code. The end result is the same, isn't it? The porting agreement may have meant that changes to the -compression- code or the changing of the -functions- of Lharc must be distributed. These two points are only speculation, though. 2. I myself may have been biased in suggesting that your tests were biased. This is possible, but not likely. I really don't care much one way or the other about which is better. I use Lharc right now because it is the best available. If I thought ZOO was better, I wouldn't hesitate to switch. Zip also gives about the same compression and the same speed as Lharc and Zoo. So far, Lharc has been the most reliable program for the ST in the compression area. It also has a lot of really nice features. 3. Lharc may have a problem with time-stamps. This I doubt. I have been using Lharc for a while now, and I have never experienced the problem. I have TOS 1.4, as did the other user who mentioned he had no problems. I think it might be your version of TOS. While I think Lharc should prabably work with the other TOS systems for completeness, but I won't carp about it. TOS 1.2 and 1.0 should be fazed out of use anyway. 4. Assembly code doesn't provide a large speed improvement. This is normal. C is very close to assembly, so the speed improvement wouldn't be that big. On the other hand, it is a great deal faster than Pascal or Modula-2 or Basic. I hope I have managed to address some of your major points. << ---------------------------------- >> << ersys!mforget@nro.cs.athabascau.ca >> << mforget@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca >> << Michel Forget >> << "He's dead, Jim..." - Bones >> << ---------------------------------- >> ------------------------------ Date: 29 Sep 91 03:50:43 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!convex!rosenkra@arizona.edu (William Rosenkranz) Subject: lharc 2.01e vs. zoo 2.1: some tests To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article mforget@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Michel Forget) writes: >rosenkra@convex.com (William Rosenkranz) writes: >You really want that code, don't you? Two points come to mind, though. note: whenever i mention "unix", substitue VMS or CMS or anything else. i just happen to use unix. others may use something else (non-TOS). yes, i _really_ want the source to ANY archiver i use. just to make sure that 10 years from now, when i have a non-atari system, i can always get at my 100's of MB of files (by a recompile of the program on the new system). is that _so_ tough for you to swallow? i have a HUGE investment in data, don't you? and do you think the 8mhz 68k will live forever? i would not even bet that half the computer companies in business today (eg atari) will be in 5 years. who knows? why take a chance when such a trivial solution exists. unix lharc will NOT extract lh5 archives. unless you have one that does. if so PLEASE POST IT!!!!!!! from what i understand, lh5 is only implemented in assembler even on the PC since it was so slow there. a really stupid thing to do, IMHO since it makes it non-portable. if anything, it should have been both (c and asm). >The first is to question whether or not he made a new agreement with the >author of Lharc. He might have, you know. The second is to wonder ok, i will contact yoshi myself and find this out. what do you want me to do: have yoshi _force_ the source to be released? i am asking politely. >whether or not changing the language is the same as changing the code. changing the code is changing the code. edit 1 line and i figure that is a change. it is not the same as before. here we have _huge_ sections of the code changed. there is no doubt that the code _has_ changed. >the other about which is better. I use Lharc right now because it is the >best available. If I thought ZOO was better, I wouldn't hesitate to good for you. use lharc all u want. what i am arguing about is a "standard" for posts and files uploaded to public archives on the net. what you do at home or wherever is none of my (or anyone elses) business. and i don't care what happens on BBS's either. only atari.archive and panarthea (or whatever the comp.{binaries,sources}.atari.st archive calls itself these days). everything else is of no concern to me, tho it might be to others. >switch. Zip also gives about the same compression and the same speed as >Lharc and Zoo. So far, Lharc has been the most reliable program for the hardly. lharc on the ST is unreliable. read my post more carefully. >3. Lharc may have a problem with time-stamps. > >This I doubt. I have been using Lharc for a while now, and I have never >experienced the problem. I have TOS 1.4, as did the other user who READ MY POST. i showed you the problem, unless you think i am lying to you. it does not work on my system, the biggest ST atari makes (mega 4 with 80 MB of atari harddisks). zoo does. i preseted unedited results of directory listings after extraction. the date was wrong. lharc has a bug making it useless for people needing it to be accurate. PERIOD. that list of people includes any programmer who uses make, RCS, or similar tools. >mentioned he had no problems. I think it might be your version of TOS. so what. it should work on ALL TOS versions. otherwise it is hardly universal, or _reliable_ as you claim. it is not as i _showed_. >While I think Lharc should prabably work with the other TOS systems for >completeness, but I won't carp about it. TOS 1.2 and 1.0 should be fazed >out of use anyway. there are LOTS of people with TOS < 1.4. many people who write s/w for a living MUST maintain test systems just to make sure their software runs on all revs. your solution is to change the operating system to suit a buggy program. hardly what i would call rational. if i had the source (there he goes again :-) i could fix it and you would not here a peep out of me! >4. Assembly code doesn't provide a large speed improvement. > >This is normal. C is very close to assembly, so the speed improvement i was responding to another who insisted that lharc was written in asm for speed which i demonstrated is not inherently needed, unless of course you are actually striving for anit-portability :-). >I hope I have managed to address some of your major points. yes, however i think i still win the argument :-). and i really fail to see WHY the test itself was biased. _i_ might be, but how is the _test_ biased? i tried for equal footings by eliminating a potentially huge bias with hard disk (i _could_ have done the lharc test in a nearly full, highly fragmented partition on a slower disk and the zoo in a high speed empty partition, saying that "i ran both on a hard disk"). what actually was biased in the results? that i happened to pick a test which CRASHED MY MACHINE? that i happened to pick a test THAT PRODUCED INCORRECT TIMESTAMPS? that i happened to pick tests THAT SHOW ZOO IS AS FAST AND AS EFFICIENT? if you read the same thing in a trade rag, you would thing it was unbiased, i suspect. maybe i should have submitted the article anonymously :-). i tried to be EXTREMELY detailed in my reporting. i do benchmarking for a living. maybe less IS more. when you accuse the test of being biased, be specific. name calling ("oh, rosenkranz posted that, he is biased"), tho i _did_ invite it, is useless... -bill rosenkra@convex.com -- Bill Rosenkranz |UUCP: {uunet,texsun}!convex!rosenkra Convex Computer Corp. |ARPA: rosenkra@convex.com ------------------------------ Date: 29 Sep 91 02:00:19 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.p itt.edu!gatech!prism!gt1448b@arizona.edu (David P. Forrai) Subject: More Lies From Atari? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <9511@cactus.org> covert@cactus.org (Richard Covert) writes: .. stuff deleted ... >Atari sells many products overseas that can not pass the USA FCC >inspection here. I wonder why that is so? Are radiation emissions >tests more restrictive here in the USA then in Europe? why does >atari have some many recurring problems passing FCC tests? FCC testing IS a real problem. My father in-law is getting into the business of testing computers for the FCC. Why? Because there are only 4 other businesses who do so. He said that when the FCC approves his company (the hard part), he will instantly have $15,000 in his pocket. >-- >Richard E. Covert covert@cactus.org >CACTUS ..!cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!covert -- David P. Forrai uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt1448b Internet: gt1448b@prism.gatech.edu ------------------------------ Date: 28 Sep 91 19:03:40 GMT From: crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!redmond@pt.cs.cmu.edu (Redmond English) Subject: People dumping machines (was.. Atari Mega 2 system.. for sale) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Sep27.143553.27920@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> dhbutler@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David Butler) writes: >One thing I have noticed about the computer world is that there are a lot of >real bone-heads in it, like as in thick skulls. Atari and Amiga users are the >WORST of the lot.Get off your high-horses guys, you are arguing over a hunk of >frigging silicone and some wires! That's right, go home, look at your ST, and ~~~~~~~~ >think about what it really is, a lump of PLASTIC and METAL, and that is all,it >has no importance. GET A LIFE! All computers are good a different things, and >that is all there is to it! I like them all, I use them all (although the >consulting lab I work at during the day recently got rid of the Amigas, rats) [..stuff deleted] Fascinating! My ST uses SILICON ! No silicone in sight ! Silicones are a class of compounds with the formula (R2SiO)n where R is any hydrocarbon group. Silicones are used as water-repellents, laquers, lubricants, resins, artificial breast augmentation etc. but they ain't semiconductors! Anyway, this aside I believe David has missed the point. I think the original poster was saying that you can get Mac compatability at less cost than buying a Mac - no comment about what was *better*, just *cheaper*. Something else I find curious - David seems to believe that arguing about arguing about computers is inherently better than merely arguing about computers. I think it is even more futile! David also says that different computers are good for different things. Does anybody know what Intel architecture machines are good for (other than running DOS software, which is rather a circular argument) ? I mean in a computing senses - "As a doorstop" is not quite the type of answer I'm looking for. Red/. ------------------------------ Date: 28 Sep 91 22:40:44 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!lll-winken!aunro!ersys!mforget@arizona.edu (Michel Forget) Subject: Sozobon > 1.2 To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu agostino@concour.cs.concordia.ca (Agostino Deligia) writes: > > > Hi, > > Anyone on the net know when the next version ( > 1.2 ) of Sozobon will > be released? Someone mentioned a couple of weeks ago that it was going to be > released in a couple of weeks :~) but nothing has shown up in > comp.binaries.atari.st or atari.archive.umich.edu. > > Thanx for any info, > ad > > -- > Agostino Deligia > agostino@concour.cs.concordia.ca > It was the best of .sigs, it was the worst of .sigs... The person who mentioned it was Steve Yelvington. The place where he receives his E-Mail is *VERY* hard to reach. Every message I send takes about five days for him to receive it. First it gets bounced back with the message "host unknown" and then he usually gets it a few days later. The few times we have been able to get mail to each other, he mentioned that the author (Ian Lepore (sp?)) decided that he was going to make a few more modifications to it since he was going to release a new version anyway. A version (that has a few problems) is available from MAST for $4 US. I sent away for it, but haven't gotten a reply yet. I'm not sure if it will take 4-6 weeks like a mail-order service or if they handle the packages within three days (like magazine). This Monday, the letter will have been in their hands for 14 days. I sent it Special Delivery (3 days guaranteed) so I know that it should have arrived two weeks ago counting from this coming Monday. Anyway, I hope this helps to answer your question. The version from MAST is 1.6xx. << ---------------------------------- >> << ersys!mforget@nro.cs.athabascau.ca >> << mforget@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca >> << Michel Forget >> << "He's dead, Jim..." - Bones >> << ---------------------------------- >> ------------------------------ Date: 29 Sep 91 05:07:03 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!usc!chaph.usc.edu!aludra.usc.edu!rjung@arizona.edu (Robert Jung) Subject: Spectrum spazz on TOS 1.62/STe? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Hi. I just recently got myself a 520STe with TOS 1.62 installed. I notice, though, that whenever I try to load in Spectrum 512 pictures, they get columns of black or white pixels running at random (and not aesthetically pleasing) places along the image. I imagine that this is due to some inconsistency with the Spectrum picture display routine and TOS 1.62/the 4096 STe palette. Does anyone know of a patch or solution for this problem that I can use? Any information would be appreciated. --R.J. B-) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ # ## # Send replies to rjung@usc.edu # ## # ## ## ## I wrote this. If you've got a comment, give #### ## #### it to me and let's cut out the middleman. ------------------------------ Date: 28 Sep 91 15:06:24 GMT From: dg!chan@uunet.uu.net (Allen Chan) Subject: ST System 4SALE To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Hardware: 1 meg memory, color monitor, dual sided floppy drive, 30 meg harddrive, MIDI, etc. Langauges: Pascal, Modula-2, LISP, 68K macro assembler. Tools: Unix, multitasking package, communications package, VT100 emulator. Applications: Word processor with real time spell checker, 1-2-3 like spreadsheet with write 90, database, CAD program. Books & Manuals: 68K programmer's books, TOS BIOS book, system manuals, applications manuals. Fun Stuff: Music program, copy protection breaker, two draw programs, too many games to mention. works perfectly. Sell whole system or parts. $950/bo for whole system. call Allen w 508-870-9875, h 508-820-7236 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Sep 91 14:53:12 ADT From: Alyre CHIASSON Subject: SUPERCHARGER and ATARI LASER PRINTER To: N Is there any kind of support for the Atari Laser printer that comes with Supercharger? CHIASSAL@UDEM . ------------------------------ Date: 28 Sep 91 19:32:26 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-sta te.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!ncoast!bjsjr@arizona.edu (Bill Shroka) Subject: Zoo with GEM interface (Was: Re: ARJ? K.I.S.S.!) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Sep27.154722.11915@convex.com> rosenkra@convex.com (William Rosenkranz) writes: > >tho i trust bill shroka and the atari guys to "do the right thing", i >still prefer rainer's suggestion for a separate GEM shell for archivers. >with virtually any other sort of program, be my guest (not that i am >some sort of programming cop) and load it up with GEM functionality. >this is actually a good idea IMHO. Since I am not a very big fan of GEM, you can be sure that I will think this matter over very thoroughly. I won't add any internal GEM interface just to be trendy, but there is a large demand for one (on GEnie). Perhaps when Rainer's Arcgshell is updated, or when Steve Yelvington completes (if it's not already completed) ZOOSHELL, this demand will subside. >i just get shivers down my spine when i think about proposals to muck >around with archivers. i can easily see someone else picking the code >up and introducing incompatibilities in it, even inadvertantly. and >i think this paranoia of mine is at least somewhat justified since we >have a track record for doing this (lharc). if atari would maintain >the only "official" GEM version of zoo, this, too, would be acceptable. > >before screwing around with zoo, i would URGE you to contact zoo's owner >and check with him on this issue. i believe the copyright restrictions >in zoo should be looked at as well. any changes to zoo that make it >incompatible require you to stop calling it zoo. at a minimum, you should >bounce back these changes to rahul dhesi so he can incorporate them in >the next "official" zoo release, properly #ifdef'ed for atari... When R. Dhesi contacted me about incorporating my version of Zoo into the "mainstream" version he seemed very open-minded. Simply stated, he sends me the new version of the source, I make it work on the Atari and send it back to him. He then releases the source on one of the sources newsgroups. As long as any GEM code lives within atari.c, I don't forsee any problems but I would definately check with Rahul first. >flame away... > >-bill >rosenkra@convex.com > >-- >Bill Rosenkranz |UUCP: {uunet,texsun}!convex!rosenkra >Convex Computer Corp. |ARPA: rosenkra@convex.com -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Shroka bjsjr@NCoast.ORG uunet!usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu!ncoast!bjsjr ------------------------------ Date: 28 Sep 91 19:43:45 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs .ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!ncoast!bjsjr@arizona.edu (Bill Shroka) Subject: Zoo with GEM interface (Was: Re: ARJ? K.I.S.S.!) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <90475@bu.edu> harryk@bucsf.bu.edu (Harry Karayiannis) writes: [stuff deleted] > > Speaking of Zoo, I had some problems with it last night. Being sick of the >zillions variations of lharc I decided to unpack all my .lzh files and zoo them >with zoo ver 2.1. (since the compression is about the same, and zoo is >guaranteed to work on all platforms) But altough the first couple of times it >was doing fine, suddenly it stoped working properly: I was trying to create a >new archive-file containing the files of a directory andf zoo2.1 gave me 3 >bombs. I used the command: zoo21 ah// x.zoo dir (actually I was experimenting >with the command line). The thing is that zoo21 bombed me every time I tried to >commpress files maintining the full path-names......while zoo2.01 was doing >that without problem (but the compression was significantly lower). > > Anyway, I think I read in this newsgroup that the version of zoo 2.1 stored >on atari.archive (I got my copy from there) has some problems.. >Do I remember correctly? If yes,. could someone please tell me where can find >a "clean" copy of zoo ver 2.1? You should be able to find it on atari.archive in the comp.binaries.atari.st directory. If that's the version you're already using, then contact me via E-mail and we'll see if we can find out what's wrong. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Shroka bjsjr@NCoast.ORG uunet!usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu!ncoast!bjsjr ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ******************************