Info-Atari16 Digest Sun, 29 Sep 91 Volume 91 : Issue 512 Today's Topics: 6809 cross assembler ARJ? ARJ? K.I.S.S.! Atari Laser Printer for SALE (2 msgs) ATARI ON TV Fantasia lharc 2.01e vs zoo 2.1: some tests (2 msgs) More Lies From Atari? People dumping machines (was.. Atari Mega 2 system.. for sale) (2 msgs) problems with zoo 2.1 recursive Recommendations sought: upgrading a Supra20 HD Stalker & Fonts Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU. Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored. If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please contact the redistributor, not us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 26 Sep 91 12:40:38 GMT From: mcsun!hp4nl!esatst!wg!wvleeshh@uunet.uu.net (Wim Vleeshhouwer) Subject: 6809 cross assembler To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Anybody out there able to tell me if a crossassembler for 6809 exists and if so where can I find it? Also the beast should be able to generate S1-S9 code. Any help would be greatly appreciated! ------------------------------ Date: 26 Sep 91 15:59:41 GMT From: mcsun!hp4nl!alchemy!piet@uunet.uu.net (Piet van Oostrum) Subject: ARJ? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu >>>>> steve@thelake.mn.org (Steve Yelvington) (SY) writes: SY> I've always used a single startup module for all Sozobon-compiled GEM SY> applications (except Desk Accessories, of course). ~~~~~~~~~ Not "of course". You can have a startup module that also deals with desk accessories correctly (although I don't know if that uses undocumented features, so it might not be legal). -- Piet* van Oostrum, Dept of Computer Science, Utrecht University, Padualaan 14, P.O. Box 80.089, 3508 TB Utrecht, The Netherlands. Telephone: +31 30 531806 Uucp: uunet!mcsun!ruuinf!piet Telefax: +31 30 513791 Internet: piet@cs.ruu.nl (*`Pete') ------------------------------ Date: 27 Sep 91 21:07:54 GMT From: cadence!cadence.com!bammi@uunet.uu.net (Jwahar R. Bammi) Subject: ARJ? K.I.S.S.! To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article steve@thelake.mn.org (Steve Yelvington) writes: > Any program with a reasonable structure (i.e., main is used as a top-level > flow-control module) should be easy to GEM-ify by adding > > if (argc == 0) > gem(); > arghhh! dont do this. if args are not available, in the gcc startup module, it still creates argv[0] == "", so the min value of argc a program will ever see is 1. this is true for acc startup too. the reason for doing this is that it is required by Posix (in case you were thinking that these guys just made a random decision :-) cheers, -- -- bang: uunet!cadence!bammi jwahar r. bammi domain: bammi@cadence.com GEnie: J.Bammi CIS: 71515,155 ------------------------------ Date: 27 Sep 91 14:18:57 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!cronkite.Central.Sun.COM!spdev!texsun!digi!r goseweh@arizona.edu (Roy Gosewehr) Subject: Atari Laser Printer for SALE To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <9513@cactus.org> covert@cactus.org (Richard Covert) writes: >(stuff deleted) >I have seen used HPLJII compatible laser printers for under >a grand. and they don't require a 4 meg ST to use. > >And for you all Atari Apologists, I know that the SLiMe is >greased lightning because of its DMA interface, but have you >ever tried a fancy laser printer on a PC with the vidoe interface? >Just as fast as the SLiMe, so there!! Geez, Richard - Give us a break! I am sitting here typing this on a 4Mb 25Mhz 386DX with a locally attached HP LaserJet III with 4 Mb of RAM. It takes FOREVER to get something that has graphics in it to print. And half the time appears to be download time to the printer RAM. Besides I could make MORE use of the RAM if it were in the PC than on the printer. (Nothing like dedicated high-cost hardware!) I would MUCH rather have the Atari setup. Please go and buy your Mac and leave us alone. R.C.G. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Sep 91 18:57:05 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!olivea!isc-br!michaela@arizona.edu (Michael Albo) Subject: Atari Laser Printer for SALE To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu What's the problem ? Is my price to high? This printer works very well with spectre as well as atari applications. Make me an offer. For anyone using an ST its just great. ---------------- Atari SLM804 Laser Printer This only has about 2100 pages printed on it and has just had a new cartridge put in it. $650 (Requires a least an ST with 2 meg of memory or more.) Terms are C.O.D. and the buyer must pay shipping. send email or contact me directly. My email address is: michaela@isc-br.isc-br.com My home phone is (509) 928-8009 ------------------------------ Date: 27 Sep 91 13:34:26 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs .ohio-state.edu!dhbutler@arizona.edu (David Butler) Subject: ATARI ON TV To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu >On the show "Growing Pains" on ABC, if there is a scene with computers >in it, they usually use a Mega ST. (Last weeks episode had Carol moving >into her dorm room, and she had a Mega ST set up on her desk. > This may be old hat, but if anyone ever watched Friday The 13th., The Series (great show), you should have noticed that every computer in it (at least that I ever saw) was an Atari ST! Pretty neat huh? Does anyone know what happened to this show, it used to be on FOX, and I can't find it anymore, makes me wish I had recorded all the episodes... - David Butler - "innagaddadaviddababy" ------------------------------ Date: 27 Sep 91 20:53:30 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!li nac!unixhub!slacvm!reeves@arizona.edu (Terry Reeves) Subject: Fantasia To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I encountered this problem just last weekend (when I got my new STE). It indeed only recognizes TOS 1.60. I managed to fix it for my version by using FORTH to suck the file into memory and disassembling until I found the problem. As it turns out, the 0x160 is pretty close to the front of the file. All that has to be done is to change the 0x160 to a 0x162. It should work fine then. Terry Disclaimer: The above opinions are my own. SLAC doesn't care what I think. ------------------------------ Date: 27 Sep 91 13:16:42 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!comp.vuw.ac.nz!actrix!Roger.Shep pard@arizona.edu (Roger Sheppard) Subject: lharc 2.01e vs zoo 2.1: some tests To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I have just had a look at your rather long posting, well for one thing that I find that it is very biased to ZOO 2.1.. You allready new and use ZOO and have a source listing, so there was no real need to read the manual..?? LZH201X has a few New commands, they could only be found by reading the manual, never blaim the programer if you have never read his manual. BUGS. I think you will find that the Date/Time Problem is possible caused by TOS 1.2, I have tested some files and never found a date or time probem, but then I do use TOS 1.4.:-) Directory delimiters can be changed with the -s switch, \ to /. The progress indicator can be turned off with the -n switch, and all outputs with the -d switch. ARGV is claimed to be supported, but I have no way to test it, there was some comments in the Doc's that Thomas had fixed ARGV in version 201D. How does gulum work with a extended inputs, is it automatic when command lines are to long.? So Bill spend some money and get TOS 1.4, you could find things a lot better, gee I could not live with out my Move Files..:-) -- *** Roger W. Sheppard * Roger.Sheppard@bbs.actrix.gen.nz *** *** 85 Donovan Rd * * GEnie. R.SHEPPARD5 *** *** Kapiti At least I don't Flicker, *** *** New Zealand.. * not like a dying light globe *** ------------------------------ Date: 27 Sep 91 20:36:12 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!caen!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!thelake!steve@ar izona.edu (Steve Yelvington) Subject: lharc 2.01e vs zoo 2.1: some tests To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu [In article <1991Sep27.174901.2746@imada.ou.dk>, micro@imada.ou.dk (Klaus Pedersen) writes ... ] > One thing I don't like about ZOO is that you can't add recursive (at > least I can't get mine to eat 'zoo a// a large/*'. Sure you can. Storing entire directory structures is one of the strengths of ZOO (the other being portability). Make sure your shell isn't eating slashes; that will drive you up the wall in short order. You may have to quote the arguments; if you type zoo ah// folder/* and zoo gets ah/ instead, it'll whine and not do the job. Another way is to use the novice command: zoo -backup 'dir/*' Note that -backup and -restore are not documented in the manual. They appear to be ST extensions. -- Steve Yelvington, Marine on St. Croix, Minnesota steve@thelake.mn.org (In winter we walk on water) ------------------------------ Date: 27 Sep 91 19:49:09 GMT From: zephyr.ens.tek.com!tekgen!boblu@uunet.uu.net (Robert Luneski) Subject: More Lies From Atari? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <9511@cactus.org> covert@cactus.org (Richard Covert) writes: >In article techno@lime.in-berlin.de (Techno) writes: >>[...] >> >>Well, the ST-BOOK is available here in Germany. I've seen one here >>at my dealer two days ago. >> >>Features: >>1 MByte RAM, 40 MB HD, cost 4000.- DM >>I/O: MIDI, DMA, parallel, serial, system bus, external mouse >>built-in modem optional, external 1.44 MByte (!) 3.5" disk drive optional >>10h battery life on optional accu pack, rechargeable inside 2h during mains >>operation. >> >>Personal optinion: I like the thing, esp. the screen and the VectorPad. >> >> Techno Useless Atari Bashing by: >-- >Richard E. Covert covert@cactus.org >CACTUS ..!cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!covert deleted. Regardless of the fact that most of your points were wrong, your series of pointless whining Atari bashing posts are getting irritating. It is counter to this newsgroups charter and is a waste of everyones time. I have not only seen but have had the privilage of using the ST Book for about 2 hours one night. It is real, it will be in the US, and it is a very impressive notebook computer. Atari most definately has done this one right. I definately would like to see Atari have a larger presence in the US market and I certainly don't support many of their practices and policies, however I prefer to concentrate on what is right with Atari: Tha machine. ____ ____ /\/\/\ Bob Luneski Diamond Back II Support: boblu@tekgen.BV.TEK.COM /\/\/\ \/\/\/ Oregon Research Associates Genie: B.LUNESKI1 \/\/\/ \/\/ 16200 S.W. Pacific Hwy., Suite 162 Phone: (503) 620-4919 \/\/ \/ Tigard, OR 97224 FAX: (503) 639-6182 \/ ------------------------------ Date: 27 Sep 91 19:22:35 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.co lumbia.edu!emory!gatech!bloom-beacon!eru!hagbard!sunic!ugle.unit.no!ugle.unit.n o!erlingh@arizona.edu (Erling Henanger) Subject: People dumping machines (was.. Atari Mega 2 system.. for sale) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Just for your info: I just got informed from atari Norway that I can buy atari-unix NOW. So it shouldn't take too long 'till you can buy it in the US, since the Norwegian atari-market is (at least) as bad as yours. In fact, I was very surprised to see that we got the unix before you guys ! Erling. -- _______ _____ o ____ Erling Henanger /___ /____/ / / /| / / Norwegian Institute / /\ / / / | / | ___ of Technology. (NTH) ------ / \ /____ / / |/ \____| o Si nei til Intel. ------------------------------ Date: 27 Sep 91 19:43:39 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-s tate.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy!miavx1!jmhodosko@arizona.edu (Jeff Hodosko) Subject: People dumping machines (was.. Atari Mega 2 system.. for sale) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Sep27.143553.27920@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, dhbutler@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David Butler) writes: > One thing I have noticed about the computer world is that there are a lot of > real bone-heads in it, like as in thick skulls. Atari and Amiga users are the > WORST of the lot. Get off your high-horses guys, you are arguing over a hunk of > frigging silicone and some wires! That's right, go home, look at your ST, and > think about what it really is, a lump of PLASTIC and METAL, and that is all, it > has no importance. GET A LIFE! All computers are good a different things, and ~~~~~~~~~~ > that is all there is to it! I like them all, I use them all (although the > consulting lab I work at during the day recently got rid of the Amigas, rats). > Yep, I even like Amigas, a lot, I like STs, a lot, I like Macs, a lot, and DOS > machines, a lot... But, they are all computers, and that is all, not worth > arguing over. Buy whichever one you like or can afford. For the office, Mac is > king, it is so easy to use a total idiot can set one up and get it working in > an hour. Macs & STs are both really excellent DTP machines. Amiga has the > Animation department, and DOS has big industry (how many STs do you know that > are hooked up directly to, and running, CNC laser modeling devices, robot die > polishers, or similar devices?) But, you can do any of these things on any of > the machines (allowing for software availability). > > As for price, I can get a MacIIci with 5megs Ram and 80Meg hard drive, with > extended keyboard, for $2880 (student discount!). This is a TRUE 25mhz 68030 > machine (why did Atari screw up the TT with a 16mhz bus system? arrgghh!!), > with 3 internal expansion slots. It is a very good computer, it is not an ST, > but it is still a damn good machine, just like all the others. > > Argue over something real, or hey, go outside and DO SOMETHING! (Have you ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > noticed that the world is falling apart while you argue over your precious hunk > of wires?) > > - David Butler - THANK YOU for bringing a bit of reality into this "discussion." They are only computers. They are just tools. Some may be easier and more enjoyable to use but that is up to the individual. I happen to like my ST and will probably buy another as soon as I save up enough money, but am seriously considering buying a "brand name" computer _also_ so that I can run some other app's that I can't right now on the Atari. Anyways, instead of arguing about different computers (which is all subjective anyways), why don't you start focusing your energy into more important things like the environment, Middle East, AIDS, etc. Try to make a change in something that you feel needs to be changed in the government. - jeff (oops, I forgot to get off the soapbox (!!thump!!), Next?) :) ------------------------------ Date: 27 Sep 91 20:36:48 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!convex!rosenkra@arizona.edu (William Rosenkranz) Subject: problems with zoo 2.1 recursive To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu [ another long one... ] i was disturbed about recent allegations that zoo 2.1 has problems with recursive directory storage. so i tested this with my version of zoo (the one i have, that is; i did not do the port). i started with a directory structure like this: % ls -lRF l1 drw------- 1 u 0 Sep 27 14:56 l1\ j:\tmp\l1: -rw------- 1 u 2303 Sep 4 03:16 file1 drw------- 1 u 0 Sep 27 14:57 l2a\ drw------- 1 u 0 Sep 27 14:57 l2b\ j:\tmp\l1\l2a: -rw------- 1 u 2303 Sep 27 14:57 file1 -rw------- 1 u 2303 Sep 27 14:58 file2 -rw------- 1 u 2303 Sep 27 14:58 file3 drw------- 1 u 0 Sep 27 14:57 l3\ j:\tmp\l1\l2a\l3: -rw------- 1 u 2303 Sep 27 14:58 file1 j:\tmp\l1\l2b: -rw------- 1 u 2303 Sep 27 14:57 file1 i did this: % zoo a// rrr.zoo l1 ("zoo -backup rrr.zoo l1" will also work) listing this gives: % zoo -list rrr.zoo Archive rrr.zoo: Length CF Size Now Date Time -------- --- -------- --------- -------- 2303 38% 1423 4 Sep 91 03:16:56 0526 l1/file1 2303 38% 1423 27 Sep 91 14:57:38 0526 l1/l2a/file1 2303 38% 1423 27 Sep 91 14:58:06 0526 l1/l2a/file2 2303 38% 1423 27 Sep 91 14:58:08 0526 l1/l2a/file3 2303 38% 1423 27 Sep 91 14:58:14 0526 l1/l2a/l3/file1 2303 38% 1423 27 Sep 91 14:57:40 0526 l1/l2b/file1 -------- --- -------- --------- -------- 13818 38% 8538 6 files then extracting: % mkdir tmp (create a temporary directory) % cd tmp (move to that directory) % zoo x//. ..\rrr.zoo (extract, preserving directory structure) ("zoo -restore ..\rrr.zoo" will also work) this resulted in (i am still in the temporary directory at this point): % ls -lRF l1 drw------- 1 u 0 Sep 27 15:34 l1\ j:\tmp\tmp\l1: -rw------- 1 u 2303 Sep 4 03:16 file1 drw------- 1 u 0 Sep 27 15:34 l2a\ drw------- 1 u 0 Sep 27 15:34 l2b\ j:\tmp\tmp\l1\l2a: -rw------- 1 u 2303 Sep 27 14:57 file1 -rw------- 1 u 2303 Sep 27 14:58 file2 -rw------- 1 u 2303 Sep 27 14:58 file3 drw------- 1 u 0 Sep 27 15:34 l3\ j:\tmp\tmp\l1\l2a\l3: -rw------- 1 u 2303 Sep 27 14:58 file1 j:\tmp\tmp\l1\l2b: -rw------- 1 u 2303 Sep 27 14:57 file1 this works without problems, at least none that i can see. file timestamps are correct and it did not crash my machine :-). IMPORTANT NOTE: in order for this to work, you need to set the TZ environment variable correctly. i use: setenv TZ EST5EDT however, RCS is screwed up (actually, i think it is probably the gnu C library for timezone at the release of GNU C that apratt@atari compiled RCS - infinite thanx, alan!). it needs setenv TZ :EST5EDT to function correctly. POSIX sez something about both forms, with and without the colon (:) but i don't recall what it is at the moment. the GNU C library attempts to be POSIX compliant (which is a good thing). note that without TZ set (as most users of the desktop only will more than likely be used to), unpacked files are 1 hour newer than they should be (i.e. l1\file1 is Sep 4 04:16...). i am not aware of any way around this short of setting the TZ environment variable. for desktop users, it probably won't make too much difference anyway if the file timestamp is off by an hour. and it may only be off an hour because of daylight savings time. that is what the "EDT" in TZ flags. i would expect the directory times to bear a timestamp of the time at which they are created. even unix tar does that. i generally have TZ set to "EST5EDT" and change it to ":EST5EDT" when i use RCS. i have not checked the update notes on the GNU C library about any changes here in the last 6 months, or since RCS was released (perhaps bammi can comment). by the way, RCS is Revision Control System, a set of programs to manage revisions in files, typically source code and documentation. it has its roots in unix. apratt@atari did the port and posted it to atari.archive. it is another fine piece of software making life for programmers much easier. i would encourage more of its use. here are the vital statistics for this version: % ls -lF c:\local\bin\zoo.ttp -rw------- 1 u 83275 Jul 24 19:17 c:\local\bin\zoo.ttp* % sum c:\local\bin\zoo.ttp 34636 82 % zoo zoo 2.1 $Date: 1991/07/14 22:39:26 $ [ instructions deleted ] author (port): Bill Shroka (bjsjr@NCoast.ORG) compiler: gcc 1.40 (from readme.st file, library patchlevel unknown) this one was posted to both c.sources.a.st and c.binaries.a.st in 2 seperate files. probably they are named "zoo21b.zoo" and "zoo21s.zoo", binary and source, respectively. don't quote me on that, however. bill shroka did a fine job on the port. it, for me anyway, functions very well. the other one i have has size 86572 and is dated 13 July 1991. it came with source in an archive called zoov21.zoo. it was ported by Scott Kolodzieski (scott@sparc1.stevens-tech.edu). i have never used this version (yet). this version does not support -backup/-restore nor does it support the (atari- only) extension "a//" from what i can see. this was uploaded to atari.archive but was not posted. note that the "a//" extension will probably find its way into the "official" zoo sooner or later. for more info, see bill shroka's readme.st file in the archive. to use the kolodzieski version, you need to do "find . -print | zoo aI archive", i presume, just like unix. otherwise make a list of files to archive in another file and do "zoo aI archive