Info-Atari16 Digest Mon, 23 Sep 91 Volume 91 : Issue 499 Today's Topics: Accelerators for the ST forsale Are these applications available? ARJ? Assorted Atari queries Atari appears to be on its way down and out (2 msgs) Atari ST equipment for sale! Atari Stfm forsale Emulate? What about the other way. Hard drive advice needed. Problem printing Problems upgrading to 4M (was SIMMS from a Mac SE into an ST?) ST Magazines (was Re: More Lies From Atari?) Wanted: Floppy for ST.. What to buy next... Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU. Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored. If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please contact the redistributor, not us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 22 Sep 91 23:35:02 GMT From: noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!doug.cae.wisc .edu!carter@arizona.edu (Gregory Carter) Subject: Accelerators for the ST forsale To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <9470@cactus.org> covert@cactus.org (Richard Covert) writes: >In article <823@bug.UUCP> stevef@bug.UUCP (Steven R Fordyce) writes: >>I have come to possess a large number of Processor Accelerators for the 520, >>1040, and Mega ST that I will sell for $65 each shipping included (add $5 >> Steven R. Fordyce > > >these are the old CMI boartds which have a bad history!! And this guy >keeps reposting this same ad every week or so. I totally agree. > >I wouldn't buy one of these on a bet. If you want an accelerator >buy Dave Small's board or Jim Allen's board. Both are supported by >real fine people and you won't get burned. Buy one of these discontinued >unsupported board and you get what you pay for!! > >Support the few remaining ST developers!! > >-- >Richard E. Covert covert@cactus.org >CACTUS ..!cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!covert Lordy, Richard is right, if your going to buy any type of performance upgrade, I would seriously consider Mr. Small, Besides he needs our support to provide the itsy bitsy teeny weeny Atari community in the USA with quality high performance hardware, that is right for the budget, and a lot nicer than the alternative, ie TT. So write out your check to your local hero...Dave Small. The ultimate Atari user. OK? Anymore goop about the SST boards and when they are going to be shipping? Anyone out there he anything?? I am just itching to blow 1500 bucks. Gosh let me see...Mmmm, 030-40 Mhz, floating point support, 12Megs of Memory, 8 Megs of Z wait state ram, system 7.0 support... TURN ME ON BABY! Sorry... --Greg ------------------------------ Date: 22 Sep 91 22:33:08 GMT From: noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!casba h.acns.nwu.edu!uicvm.uic.edu!u43610@arizona.edu Subject: Are these applications available? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I am very new tothe Atari ST club. I bought the thing for a smart terminal and was pleasently surprised that the thing is quite a capible machine.. As a res ult, I am looking for the following applications so I can play with it.. - Is there a plot program for the MONOCHROME Atari st that will graph 3-D math fu nctions? (Like polar, parametric and 2-variable polars, etc...) Is there a sh are ware version of this I may FTP to myself? - Is there a Word processor (I already have New Word) that will generate fonts on an Epson Printer.. (Like a Mac does with an Imagewriter).. - Oh yes: and a question about the Atari "SM124" Monochrome monitor: I have a sm all break in the cable which occasionally causes a disruption in the tube.. Is it possible to replace the cable without replacing the CRT controller? Does a nyone know a source for parts? - Replies? U43610@uicvm.uic.edu - Ken. (Notice: no 17-line signoffs.) ------------------------------ Date: 22 Sep 91 16:58:00 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!thelake!steve@ariz ona.edu (Steve Yelvington) Subject: ARJ? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu [In article <1991Sep22.140142.12168@actrix.gen.nz>, Roger.Sheppard@actrix.gen.nz (Roger Sheppard) writes ... ] > Note: I brought a Atati because of its Gem capabilties, very easy to > use and learn, but you keep on about CLI, Why do you live in the > dark ages. I've written a GEM shell for ZOO. It works as Bill described -- it translates user preferences into a command tail that is passed to a separate ZOO program. Either the shell or ZOO can be replaced/ upgraded without requiring a change of the other component. One thing that became quite clear to me in the process of writing ZOOSHELL is that it's difficult to come up with a visual menu structure that provides access to all of the capabilities of the program in a fashion that doesn't overwhelm the user. My solution thus far has been simply to forget about being complete. ZOOSHELL provides a simple way to use the most common functions. ZOO's command-line interface remains available for people who want it. I intend to add a command-line editing option to ZOOSHELL, so users who wish to do so can write complex commands in a GEM dialog. I don't know of a good, economical, visual way of saying ``move all the .C, .S, .O, .H and .MAK files into an archive, deleting the originals, but leave everything else untouched.'' There's a fairly simple ZOO command for doing that. > If I wanted CLI, I would have brought a PC, I am one for things > that are easy to use, that is how you get more productivity. > If you what to stay with your Steam Engine, why not go play with it, > in the Museum. I don't think it's necessary to give up the capabilities of a text shell in order to gain the capabilities of a graphical interface, and I can't buy the argument that the mouse is always easier to use than the keyboard. That's the design error of the Macintosh -- no shell, no script language, no simple text applications. Original Macs don't even have cursor arrow keys. I hate using them -- you can't even do something as simple as copying a PostScript file to the printer without having a special application. It's like buying a beautiful pair of new shoes, then walking around with your shoelaces tied together. A combination of GEM plus a command-driven shell -- such as GEMINI with Mupfel -- is much better. > What is wrong with Thomas Questers version of Lharc, it is fully > compatible with the PC version, and a lot better, plus it supports > all the othere LZH/LARC Formats and Unix ones as well, and Note. > packs far better than all the otheres, and is blindly fast. Can you unpack every file created with Quester's program on a Unix box, a PC or an Amiga? If not, I think the problem is obvious. Write-only archiving is the curse of the .LZH format. -- Steve Yelvington, Marine on St. Croix, Minnesota steve@thelake.mn.org ------------------------------ Date: 23 Sep 91 02:15:34 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!usc!chaph.usc.edu!girtab.usc.edu!rjung@arizona.edu (Robert Jung) Subject: Assorted Atari queries To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu A few assorted Atari STe computer questions out there. For the record, I am running a (brand new!) 4 megabyte 520STe with TOS 1.62 installed and a color monitor. 1. Does anyone know for sure whether or not FSM GDOS works with existing GDOS applications? The official word from Atari (via Atari Explorer) magazine says it does, but I am a tad suspect. My dealer says that a program must be written for FSM GDOS to work properly. My biggest GDOS application is WordUp, and if I can get a way to squeeze tons of fonts out of it without having to fill up my hard drive with bitmapped fonts, that would be terrific. 2. Speaking of WordUp, should I be moving on to another document processor program? WordUp offers me a lot of terrific features -- WHEN it works. WordUp is also showing to be very sensitive with new programs out here, such as MultiGEM. I'd like to go to a program that offers a similar "word processing mixed with image layout" program. I'm not sure I want to go to full DTP a la Calamus or PageStream. I hear WordFlair II is good, but how does it handle for just writing text? 3. Speaking of MultiGEM, is anyone else using this product? It's running very nicely for me so far (except for older "breaks the rules" programs), but I have one gripe with it. Whenever I change resolutions, I lose all my accessories! Is this a known bug? Does anyone else have this problem? Is an upgrade available? 4. Speaking of MultiGEM again, I am a tad annoyed with the MULTIWIN.PRG that's included with the package. It's supposed to channel I/O from .TOS and .TTP programs into a window, so I can multitask .TOS and .TTP programs. Only thing is, in medium resolution, MULTIWIN.PRG is running my .TOS and .TTP output at an 11-point System font. Yuck! Is there a solution or workaround for this? Maybe some other PD/Shareware "Put TOS output into a GEM window" program I can use? Any comments or advice would be appreciated. Thanks! --R.J. B-) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ # ## # Send replies to rjung@usc.edu # ## # ## ## ## I wrote this. If you've got a comment, give #### ## #### it to me and let's cut out the middleman. ------------------------------ Date: 22 Sep 91 23:29:06 GMT From: noao!ncar!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!cunixf.cc.columbia.edu !cunixa.cc.columbia.edu!ia4@arizona.edu (Imran Anwar) Subject: Atari appears to be on its way down and out To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu It would appear to me that if a product like the ST cannot have a strong enough base to keep ST-specific magazines in business the whole line may be doomed. I have been with the ST since the 520 with external ss drives, and now have the Mega4ST with Megafile 30 since the last three years. It is a pity that such a useful machine is simply not found in larger numbers of homes, maybe because the manufacturer/management never did it any justice. Maybe they too have given up on the product. It would appear so form the fact that I have seen one mail order catalog advertise Atari modems (1200) SX212 for sale for $19.99 each. It seems that Atari must have dumped them on this low price seller for REALLY low prices. What's up, will we see $150 ST's next? No flames intended, just some questions and comments that came to mind, with my disappointment inthe Atari Corp's lack of marketing skills with what was obviously a great product. Imran ------------------------------ Date: 23 Sep 91 00:30:33 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!usc!chaph.usc.edu!alcor.usc.edu!baffoni@arizona.edu (Juxtaposer) Subject: Atari appears to be on its way down and out To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Sep22.232906.7001@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> ia4@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu writes: >It would appear to me that if a product like the ST cannot have a >strong enough base to keep ST-specific magazines in business the whole >line may be doomed. This is a bad sign - but it doesn't necessarily mean that the product is bad - it just shows that the manufacturer is less than good at advertising. > >I have been with the ST since the 520 with external ss drives, and now have >the Mega4ST with Megafile 30 since the last three years. It is a pity that >such a useful machine is simply not found in larger numbers of homes, >maybe because the manufacturer/management never did it any justice. > >Maybe they too have given up on the product. It would appear so form the >fact that I have seen one mail order catalog advertise Atari modems (1200) >SX212 for sale for $19.99 each. It seems that Atari must have dumped >them on this low price seller for REALLY low prices. What's up, will we see >$150 ST's next? Oh come on, you can't base a computer company's health on a product that was discontinued years ago! Those were sold with/for 8-bit ataris. They are most likely trying to dump stuff out of the warehouse. Atari never made modem sales it's main strength - why should it since all STs have a standard RS232c port for use with cheaper standard modems by other companies. You are right however that if someone had a long-lost storage of say 1040STfms sitting around in a warehouse somewhere, they probably would sell them for $150 (or less!) to get rid of them (and make a little pocket change). Besides, would you pay more for a 1200 baud modem? :) > >No flames intended, just some questions and comments that came to mind, >with my disappointment inthe Atari Corp's lack of marketing skills with >what was obviously a great product. > >Imran Lack is an understatement. They haven't even bothered with paying minimum wage for people to pass out flyers. Maybe they're waiting for the networks to pay them for an ST/TT spot? :) -Mike ------------------------------ Date: 23 Sep 91 04:01:50 GMT From: europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!umbc3.umbc.edu!umbc5.umbc.e du!chuck@uunet.uu.net (Chuck Rickard; ACS (UGRAD)) Subject: Atari ST equipment for sale! To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu FOR SALE: Atari 1040 ST $275 1 meg main system memory Internal 720K 3.5" disk drive TOS 1.4 Operating System ROMs Atari standard mouse (Japan) Atari SC 1224 Color monitor $225 Original super-sharp JVC model Semi-"Home-brew" hard drive $200 SH 204 case and power supply/fan ICD Advantage Host Adapter (w/clock) OMTI SCSI-to-MFM converter Seagate ST-251 40 meg drive (flakey) DMA cable Surreal Systems Internal Clock (w/software) B/O Abacus Chartpak B/O If you have a trade in mind, then go ahead and ask. For now, I am looking for mostly IBM and generic stuff: SCSI Hard drives, laser printers, Roland MT-32 or LAPC-1, etc... Anyway, if you have an offer, then make it! The worst thing that can happen is that I'll say "No way!" I prefer email, but if you would rather call, you can reach me at (301) 521-0015. Thanks! -- Chuck Rickard (chuck@umbc5.umbc.edu) ------------------------------ Date: 22 Sep 91 23:23:02 GMT From: ub!galileo.cc.rochester.edu!news@rutgers.rutgers.edu (----* Ho Ling Cherd *----) Subject: Atari Stfm forsale To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I have the following for sale: Atari 1040 STfm - CPU /w keyboard - 1 MG RAM - built in 720K 3.5" floppy disk drive - RF port - for hooking up to color TV or VCR --- $300 or best offer Atari Sc1224 (GoldStar) RGB Color Monitor --- $180 or best offer (would prefer to sell this with the Stfm) Back Pack - utilities in catridge --- best offer Procopy ST (copying software) --- $5.00 obo ST-Talk (communication) --- $7.00 obo Haba Check Minder (checking account reminder) --- $7.00 obo Gnictron Football (Football Game) --- $7.00 obo Space Shuttle (Game) --- $7.00 obo Defender of the Crown (Game) --- $10.00 obo Tanglewood (Game) --- $3.00 not working with TOS 1.0 and 1.6 The Darkness Rises (Game) --- $10.00 obo Fast (ST Dos and other utilties) --- $7.00 obo Dungeon Master (Game) --- $5.00 no manual but with maps and hints Falcon (Game) --- $15.00 obo Epstart (Macintosh Epson printer driver for Spectre ) --- $30 obo VIP professional (Spreadsheet - Lotus 123 clone) --- $25.00 no manual and 2 atari joysticks --- free with the stfm dusk cover for 1040STFM free with the STFM Box of 10 DIsk with PD and Sharewares free with the STFM Buyer pay shippings. Please e-mail to lchd_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu Thanks. .. Ling Cherd ------------------------------ Date: 22 Sep 91 20:21:29 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.p itt.edu!gvlf3.gvl.unisys.com!tredysvr!cellar!darling@arizona.edu (Thomas Darling) Subject: Emulate? What about the other way. To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu boyd@bind.cs.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd) writes: > In article <1991Sep20.151133.5618@bdt.com>, CATHRYN@bdt.COM writes: > >How about an ST emulator card which would fit into a slot of a PC clone. So > >could run old ST software and clone software without having computers take > >over the house! > > Derek M (the author of STXFormer, the software 8-bit emulator) has stated tha > he is/was working on a software ST emulator for 80xx6 platforms. The > "Gemulator" can supposedly blow an ST out of the water on a 486. I have not > heard a followup on this for some time (I read about it in Current Notes > some months ago). This should be interesting if it ever appears . . . . In this day and age when you can buy a 1040ST for $399, I find this kind of silly. Especially considering that the machine's main pro market, MIDI users, wouldn't be supported by such emulation. ~ darling@cellar.UUCP \\\ Thomas Darling * record production * dance re-mixing uunet!cellar!darling \\\ Fact HQ Studio * The Cellar BBS:215/336-9503 * FACT v ------------------------------ Date: 23 Sep 91 02:38:55 GMT From: ub!acsu.buffalo.edu!chu@rutgers.rutgers.edu (john c chu) Subject: Hard drive advice needed. To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I just got my E. Arthur Brown Catalog and in it are several entries about Supra's 52 Meg hard drive which has an 11(?!)ms access time. Can anyone tell me anything about this drive? Would I be better off putting together my own drive rather than getting this? Please reply by e-mail. Thanks! john chu@acsu.buffalo.edu ------------------------------ Date: 23 Sep 91 00:10:25 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!usc!rpi!dinsmm@arizona.edu (Michael John Dinsmore) Subject: Problem printing To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I use 1st Word with Epson LX-800 printeer, but am using a LX-80 printer driver. Every time I try to print out a document, it form feeds a page before it starts printing. What's up? And how can I fix this? I tried looking at the printer driver but I couldn't find anything. Anyone using this setup find a solution? Please e-mail me a message or post it here. Thanks! ____ /\/\ \MD/ / \ike "You can twist perceptions, reality won't budge." \/ dinsmm@rpi.edu - Neil Peart, RUSH ------------------------------ Date: 22 Sep 91 23:54:52 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!usc!chaph.usc.edu!alcor.usc.edu!baffoni@arizona.edu (Juxtaposer) Subject: Problems upgrading to 4M (was SIMMS from a Mac SE into an ST?) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article steve@thelake.mn.org (Steve Yelvington) writes: >[In article <1991Sep21.030908.985@cs.sfu.ca>, > wolfgang@cs.sfu.ca (Wolfgang Jung) writes ... ] > > > My feeling of this is that you NEED (i never read you did) to remove or > > at least deactivate the 256K Chips , which normaly reside in BANK 0 > > In the case you forgot that, the hardware gets into VERY big Trouble when > > reading from the rams at an Address greater than 512K. If you leave the > > HIGH Address line unconnected (MAD10 i think) the system reads and writes > > into the same bytes, which shouldn't make any Problems. > >How do you do this (temporarily)? I have an old nearly-original 520 (with >modulator, without floppy) that has a half-populated Tech Specialties >piggyback board. I'd like to bring it up to 4MB, since chips are >practically free these days, but to do so I need to disable bank 0. I'd >like to do that without having to get a bunch of chips desoldered -- in >case it doesn't work and I have to restore the original setup. You really can't get around the desoldering part (I certainly can't get in close enough to snip just the Vss and Vdd pins - If _you_ can, then do that and just resolder them when you are done). You can however do what I did which is to desolder all 16 256k drams and then solder in 16 low-profile dram sockets (like $.50 a piece at Radio Shack - I know, I got ripped, but they were near-by and ...). That way, you can mess around with the address/ data/WE/CE/whatever lines by using . Then, when/if you are done hacking, you just put in 16 brand new (and more importantly lower-power-consuming) drams and viola! All back to where you were before. Just gotta watch out for where you swing that soldering iron... -Mike ------------------------------ Date: 22 Sep 91 23:23:44 GMT From: noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakar i.primate.wisc.edu!doug.cae.wisc.edu!carter@arizona.edu (Gregory Carter) Subject: ST Magazines (was Re: More Lies From Atari?) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <9469@cactus.org> covert@cactus.org (Richard Covert) writes: >In article <1991Sep22.062314.9970seitz@netcom.COM> seitz@netcom.COM (Matthew Seitz) writes: >>In article <9411@cactus.org> covert@cactus.org (Richard Covert) writes: >>>((((((( But NO ST/TT magazines becuase ALL of the USA ST magazines >>> are DEAD DEAD DEAD!! And have the Tramiels EVER advertised? >>> So don't believe this rumor either!! >>>))))))) >> >>No, SOME of the USA ST magazines are ALIVE, ALIVE, ALIVE!!! I hold in my hands >>the Septemver 1991 issues of CURRENT NOTES and ATARI USER, and the August 1991 >>issue of ST INFORMER (along with a renewal request card). >>-- >> Matthew Seitz >> seitz@netcom.com > > >The rags you mentioned are the standard examples give by all >Atari Apologists (AA) (TM by Covert)!! And while they are all >good mags, they are NOT glossy nationally distributed mags which >show up in the big bookstores. they are rags which you have to >hunt to find. SO, novice Atarians wouldn't even know about them. They would probably look a bit more professional looking if they would simply dump the crappy ST DTP software they use to make the mag with. PM 4.0/MS WORD 4.0 make a great combination and a much more capable feature list to make DTP easier and more fun to do. Plus you can run it on your ST! >and speaking of CURRENT NOTES, what did you think of Bill Yerger's >Hiostory of the Atari ST? I thought that Bill really exposed Atari's >inner workings for all to see!! Bill probably made a few enemies with >his articles!! I don't supopse you would ever his articles in a fair >and impartial magazine like ATARI EXPLORER :-) Current Notes is a fine Mag. But its quite hard to get where I am. (Material or article content included is great, layout is crappy.) >-- >Richard E. Covert covert@cactus.org >CACTUS ..!cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!covert --Greg ------------------------------ Date: 22 Sep 91 22:27:54 GMT From: noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!casba h.acns.nwu.edu!uicvm.uic.edu!u43610@arizona.edu Subject: Wanted: Floppy for ST.. To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I would like to purchase a floppy disk drive(Be it single or double sided) for a reasonable price. I would like to use it as a second disk drive to my first one, a "SF354". Please do not bother me with the idiotic priced ones.. (No, I am not interested in a $130 single sided drive. even if alan Greenspan shat up on it.) My network Address is (U43610@uicvm.uic.edu). - Ken. - PS: State your price in a reply.. DO NOT ask me to make you an offer. ------------------------------ Date: 23 Sep 91 04:02:29 GMT From: fs7.ece.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!mg20+@sei.cmu.edu (Michael Paul Greelish) Subject: What to buy next... To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Er, hi, fellow Atari users. This isn't an informative post, so if you're not looking to help someone out, just skip this. It's also somewhat critical of Atari (gasp!) so if you can't stand that, please skip it too. Anyway, I won't bore you with details, but let me say that I am currently fed up with the state of the Atari market. IMHO. for anything except hard-core hackers and die-hard loyalists, the ST market has become untenable. Atari simply isn't a player in the big leagues anymore. I've got a 1040ST with 1 Meg, TOS 1.0, color monitor, no modifications. I've sunk a few bucks into the thing, but all on software; I don't even have a hard drive. 68000 performance is getting me down, and no software is *really* getting me down. I need a new system. A TT isn't an option, for reasons I'm sure you can surmise. Neither is a hacked-up modification-- I'm allergic to non-manufacturer modifications (because they have lousy support and crash *REAL* often.) So, what do I buy (when I get the money-- not real soon :-) The options & comments: 80386 IBM clone w. SVGA & hard drive Pro: Popular. Tons of software. Reasonably priced. Easily expanded. Con: Windows sucks. MS-DOS is from hell. Compatibility problems with all those different hardware add-ons you need... Amiga (2000, 2500 or 3000) Pro: Cool games. Cool graphics stuff. Good graphics. Good market. Con: Amiga market could die just like A____'s. Not truly "popular." Mac (LC, IIsi, or the '030 Classic, if it's color) Pro: Good O.S. Okay graphics. Lots of good applications. Big market. Con: No games. Add-ons are EXPENSIVE. Graphics just OK. Well? _____________________________________________________ Mike Greelish mg20@andrew.cmu.edu Carnegie Mellon University, Junior year Professional Writing major (type type type!!!....) Quote: "Political correctness isn't." ---me ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ******************************