Info-Atari16 Digest Sun, 15 Sep 91 Volume 91 : Issue 484 Today's Topics: AT-ONCE 386sx ATARI 520ST C compiler for sale gcc and gxx (gnu) Gplot mono monitor scrolling (ICD bug?) Strange problem Super Charger 286? (3 msgs) WAACE '91 AtariFest Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU. Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored. If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please contact the redistributor, not us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 15 Sep 91 02:07:36 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio- state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aa399@arizona.edu (Len Stys) Subject: AT-ONCE 386sx To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In a previous article, carsten@seki.toppoint.sub.org (Carsten Setje-Eilers) says: >aa399@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Len Stys) writes: > > >>In a previous article, carsten@seki.toppoint.sub.org (Carsten Setje-Eilers) says: >>>The only disadvantage is,that you have to scroll the screen up and down >>>via HELP and UNDO-key. The speed of redrawing the screen is ok,I think. >>> >>> >>>But the big question is,if you need such a system,if you have a Atari St... > >>What do you mean you have to scroll the screen up and down? > >>For what? > >VGA-mono is 640 * 480. The Mega STe offers 640 * 400. >So there's a difference of 80 lines. You can scroll the screen up and down >these 80 lines,if you press the HELP- or UNDO -key. >You can't see the whole VGA-screen on the SM124 .... > >Carsten > I don't know about anyone else... but it seems to me that Atari better start working on another graphics resolution... and I'm not talking for the mucho expensive TT/030 either. I wonder what it would take to bring back the STs popularity in the UK and other parts of Europe as it once was four years ago? Incredible graphics? Several sound channels? Built-in gaming hardware? Multi-media built in (sorta like Quick-Time for the Mac)? Mediocre multi-tasking like on the Amiga? IBM compatibility? Easier expandability to keep up with newer computers? Perhaps a new NAME? I know what Atari needs in the U.S.... FIRST - new management. SECOND - newer computers. THIRD - fantastic marketing. Len > -- ------------------------------ Date: 14 Sep 91 19:42:48 GMT From: noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!van-b c!jonh!jhenders@arizona.edu (John Henders) Subject: ATARI 520ST To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In <1991Sep14.034458.606@actrix.gen.nz>, Alex Valdez writes: >In article <1991Sep12.145604.9420@decuk.uvo.dec.com> les@decuk.uvo.dec.com writes: >> >> What exactly is IDRIS, surely it isnt a *real* unix for the ST? >> >No, it isn't - in the sense that AT&T did not produce it. It's a >Unix-like OS from *Whitesmiths* (not Whitesides). Did Idris actually make it to the market? I remember reading about it years ago, then complete silence. Is it available? How Much? -- John Henders jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca Vancouver,B.C or ubc.cs!van-bc!jonh!jhenders ------------------------------ Date: 15 Sep 91 00:53:13 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!milano!cactus.org!covert@arizona.edu (Richard Covert) Subject: C compiler for sale To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <8294@male.EBay.Sun.COM> wright@thepond.EBay.Sun.COM writes: > > FOR SALE: > LASER-C $125.00 > C development system > y Megamax Inc. > > Micro-C shell $ 15.00 > by Beckmyer Development Tools >Bruce Wright Good luck with that C compiler. If I remember it is NOT ANSI compatible and it hasn't been updated in years. And with the state of the ST amrket don't look for it to be updated. A better choice would be to get the GNU C,C++ compilers. they are ANSI compatible and are still supported (by that Wizard Jwahar Bammi! :-) ). I just sold off my Mark Williams C compiler becuase it wasn't ANSI compatible and because Mark Williams Corporation has stopped future development of any or all ST products. Another C compiler is the Lattice C Ver 5, which I use. it has a great AES/VDI library. But it has its own problems. it doesn't have a Source code debugger, nor a MAKE program. oh well, I'm looking for a UNIX machine myself!! -- Richard E. Covert covert@cactus.org CACTUS ..!cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!covert ------------------------------ Date: 15 Sep 91 00:12:33 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!news.bbn.com!apple!netcomsv!rcb@arizona.edu (Roy Bixler) Subject: gcc and gxx (gnu) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Sep13.132920.8524@siesoft.co.uk> arshad@siesoft.co.uk (Arshad Mahmood) writes: > >I would like to run gcc & g++ on my atari ST Mega4. I only have a single >double sided floppy but there is 4M of memory, part of which I can use as >ram disk. My questions are : > > 1) Is this configuration adequate for gcc and g++ ? > (I know I should have a harddisk but I cant afford it at the moment) It may be adequate for gcc, but probably not for g++. I think g++ takes a minimum of 2 Meg. of memory, so at least it would be a tight fit in which you couldn't compile any 'serious' programs. The 4 Meg. would be enough to run both comfortably if you had them on a hard drive. > > 2) Which files beside tos/gcc/bin/gccbin00.zoo I need for gcc > from terminator ? > ( libraries/includes/docs etc ). You will also need the library from tos/lib/bin and the includes from tos/include/bin. > > 3) Is gcc better than Sozobon C ? > ( ANSI C ). gcc is ANSI C and Sozobon is not, so gcc is 'better' if that's what you mean by better. I think the optimization is better in gcc as well, but on the down side, gcc takes up more memory (see above!). > > 4) Is g++ a preprocessor or a compiler ? It's a full-blown compiler which uses a lot of code from gcc. I think starting with version 2.xx, gcc and g++ will be integrated into one compiler. > > 5) If I get gxxbin.zoo,gxxlib.zoo & gxxinc.zoo, Will I still > need gccbin etc? Are there any docs for g++? Yes. No documentation that I know of, execpt that g++ tries to be faithful to the standard C++ from AT&T. -- Roy Bixler rcb@netcom.com -or- (UUCP) uunet!netcom.com!rcb ------------------------------ Date: 15 Sep 91 01:15:37 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!usc!news.claremont.edu!jarthur.claremont.edu!dcrevier @arizona.edu (Dan Crevier) Subject: Gplot To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu At the beginning of the summer I attempted to send a program called gplot to atari.archive.umich.edu, but the file got messed up somewhere, and I was gone all summer, but I have sent a new copy of the program to atari.archive.umich.edu, and I think it should work alright now. Below is the message I originally posted about the program. I have sent a scientific graphing program to atari.archive in the file GPLOT.ARC. It is something that my father and I worked on for the last couple of years. I am a student at Harvey Mudd College, and have used it for many labs and homework assignments. My father is a physicist and has used it for many reports and briefings. We were planning to try to sell it commercially, but have decided to release it as shareware instead since we haven't had any luck finding someone to sell it, and it isn't completely bug free. It is very good for scientific graphing. It will graph sets of x-y data, functions, and differential equations. It has a powerful spreadsheet type editor for entering and manipulating data. It uses GDOS, so the graphs are printed at very high resolution to the printer and look very good. It will work on both color and monochrome monitors. I know that it works with 1040's and Mega's, but it may not work with a TT or a moniterm monitor. Also, I think it needs 1 meg (someone please post once they have tested it). The included documentation is not as thourough as I would like it to be, but it talks about all of the features of the program. It has no information about setting up GDOS. We are asking for a $15 shareware fee. Please distribute this program as much as possible, and send any comments to: dcrevier@jarthur.claremont.edu ------------------------------ Date: 14 Sep 91 17:53:08 GMT From: europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!gatech!mailer.cc.fsu.edu!upsilon!boyd@uun et.uu.net (Mickey Boyd) Subject: mono monitor scrolling (ICD bug?) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu tppease@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (GARY PEASE) writes: > I recently purchased a 50 meg hardrive and a monochrome monitor for my 1040 > st. The st was bought around 1987 and is the original machine, no TOS > updates, memory upgrade etc. It has alway worked fine with my color > monitor. Now that I've got the hard drive and the mono I have the > following problem. Whenever I copy file from A to the hard drive the > monitor freaks out and just scrolls and has snow. If I reboot the system > the problem goes away. Also I ran another program and the desktop came back > shifted and part it was backwards?( It hard to explain what it looked like) > The guy I bought it from suggested that maybe I need a TOS update? Can > anyone help me. How can I troubleshoot the problem? > Thanks > Gary If you have an ICD controller in your hard disk, I have a great idea as to what the problem is. ICD recently went to a newer snazzier DMA cable (hooks the hard disk to the computer) that says ICD on it. Unfortunetely it also has this problem on SOME ST's (not all). You should be able to tell if you have an ICD from the boot info that scrolls by at bootup. To fix it, you merely need to call ICD. They will send you a new cable for free. -- ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- Mickey R. Boyd | "Kirk to Enterprise. All clear FSU Computer Science | down here. Beam down Technical Support Group | yeoman Rand and a six-pack . ." email: boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu | ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 14 Sep 91 21:26:56 GMT From: europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!gatech!mailer.cc.fsu.edu!upsilon.cs.fsu.e du!boyd@uunet.uu.net (Mickey Boyd) Subject: Strange problem To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Sep12.121723.8809@irscscm.UUCP>, mlake@irscscm.UUCP (Marshall Lake) writes: > >I have a problem in a program that's just about to drive me crazy. I >have been trying to find the cause for quite some time now to no >avail. > >I don't want to get into the effect because I don't think that will >help. What I would like to solicit is anyone's idea on why a program >would run differently from a floppy based system than it would from a >hard drive based system. I am at my wit's end and am willing to listen >to anything anyone has to say. > >Thanks. > >-- >Marshall Lake >mlake@irscscm.UUCP >...!uunet!media!ka3ovk!irscscm!mlake Well, for some time hard disks on ST's were very rare. The ST system was basically floppy based for several years. This resulted in a lot of software which has "a:\...." in it (ie hardcoded to work only from the floppys). Other factors which might affect this are copy protection (physical copy protection can only be done on floppies, and are thus restricted to them) and also "demoes" which are crippled to only run from the floppy (to encourage users to purchase the uncrippled version). Most commercial games will not work on a hard disk. This is because 99% of ST game purchasers do not have a hard disk, and game programmers know this (and it is easier to say a: than to look up the current logical drive from the os). As a final note, some programs have config files which are initially set for a floppy based system (again because that is most of them), but can be changed for a hard disk based system. I seem to remember that Personal Pascal was like that; You had to go in an edit a text file before it was able to find anything. I have dealt with this problem many many times (since purchasing my hard disk). Please feel free to email some details, perhaps I have encountered this particular program. -- ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- Mickey R. Boyd | "Kirk to Enterprise. All clear FSU Computer Science | down here. Beam down Technical Support Group | yeoman Rand and a six-pack . ." email: boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu | ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 14 Sep 91 23:27:48 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps. ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!doug.cae.wisc.edu!carter@arizona.edu (Gregory Carter) Subject: Super Charger 286? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <47072@cup.portal.com> Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes: >You using your Daddy's account again Kevie..? Grow up a little >and realize that cutsie personal attacks don't get you much >respect... > >>You keep making claims about how an XT would be >>more compatible. Who cares if it's more compatible if the things >>you want to run work on SuperCharger? > >Until the day you download an application you want to run, and >it won't run on an "emulator"... > >Obviously QEMM386 won't run on an 8088 XT...it's *designed* for >a '386, just as a TT program won't run on an ST.. > >The point is, why spend an almost equivalent amount of money on >an "emulator" that might run *some* of the applications you want, >when the "real thing" costs about the same...? > >Why limit yourself to the restrictive features of the "emulator" >when you can easily add VGA graphics, High Density disk drives, >and all the peripheral devices that just plug into the XT buss >in a "true" XT...? > >An upgrade from an XT to an AT involves swapping out the >motherboard for a cost of about $79... how much would it cost >to upgrade a SuperCharger to an AT...? > >The ONLY reasonable argument I've heard for using an emulator on >an ST is not having the physical space for two different complete >computer systems. Cost and capability are NOT good arguments for >going with an emulator... > >BobR You haven't quite covered everything Bob. I assume your making all these criticisms about any emulator, emulators in general. What you say about cost saving just isn't true with a Spectre GCR. You get much better performance than an Classic System, lots more memory, in my case twice the speed, I own a MEGA STE. Far lower price too. I also think that given the type of systems we are comparing, Apple system software vs. Atari crud called TOS, the benefits go way beyond savings on the dollar. I don't even think I have to go into detail here, anybody with any common sense at all, or is on a budget, knows what I am talking about. --Greg ------------------------------ Date: 15 Sep 91 04:37:04 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.ed u!rjast1@arizona.edu (Robert J Anisko) Subject: Super Charger 286? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu You mention only "lack of physical space" as a good reason for getting an emulator. For me it's basically a luxury - everything I really need in a computer I find on my ST, and my IBM emulator is merely for the luxury to run some IBM stuff if I want (and most of the important utilities/applications such as Word Perfect, Windows, DBASE, etc should work -- and that's all I really worry about). When I finally get a high-paying job I will probably get a pure 286LAPTOP (VGA of course), but for now why would I need it? Robert Anisko rjast1@cis.unix.pitt.edu ------------------------------ Date: 15 Sep 91 05:19:47 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia .edu!bronze!silver!kclenden@arizona.edu (Kevin Clendenien) Subject: Super Charger 286? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <47072@cup.portal.com> Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes: >You using your Daddy's account again Kevie..? Grow up a little >and realize that cutsie personal attacks don't get you much >respect... > .. >Obviously QEMM386 won't run on an 8088 XT...it's *designed* for >a '386, just as a TT program won't run on an ST.. > >The point is, why spend an almost equivalent amount of money on >an "emulator" that might run *some* of the applications you want, >when the "real thing" costs about the same...? > >Why limit yourself to the restrictive features of the "emulator" >when you can easily add VGA graphics, High Density disk drives, >and all the peripheral devices that just plug into the XT buss >in a "true" XT...? > >An upgrade from an XT to an AT involves swapping out the >motherboard for a cost of about $79... how much would it cost >to upgrade a SuperCharger to an AT...? > >The ONLY reasonable argument I've heard for using an emulator on >an ST is not having the physical space for two different complete >computer systems. Cost and capability are NOT good arguments for >going with an emulator... > >BobR No, Bobie, I'm not using my daddy's account. My father has been dead for 18 years. Before you put your other foot in your mouth, I'm not using my mother's account either. She's been dead for 15 years. You, like Chrisie, have not been understanding what you've been reading. You do read, don't you? Once again, I'll try to simplify things for you. If someone has a couple of thousand dollars wrapped up in Atari hardware and software, and they want to run some IBM software, it's going to be much less expensive for them if they simply buy and IBM emulator. If they buy an IBM compatible, then they have to buy all of the goodies to go with it including software. Go to college Bobie. Take some economics courses. One day you too will be able to understand simple economics. If I have misunderstood your poorly stated arguements, and what you have really been meaning to say was that if you want to run mainly IBM software, then you should buy an IBM or compatible, then I couldn't agree with you more. However, if you are perfectly happy with your Atari, and you want to run some IBM software, then an IBM emulator can be the most cost effective way to go. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- kclenden@silver.bacs.indiana.edu Kevin Clendenien BLAST BBS - (812) 332-0573 BLAST member "I want someone like you, only nicer." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Sep 91 08:05 EDT From: JOHNBARNES@ENH.NIST.GOV Subject: WAACE '91 AtariFest To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu WAACE '91 Update - 14 September 1991 Even as the masses assemble in sunny southern California, the WAACE team keeps plugging away on WAACE '91. The attached list of vendors have committed to being at the show: Codehead Software Phil Comeau Software Current Notes, Inc. D. A. Brumleve Debonair Software eSTeem Inc. FAST Technology Gadgets By Small Gribnif Software ICD ISD Marketing, Inc. JMG Software Intl Inc Joppa Computer Products L & Y Electronics MacDonald Associates Megatype Software Michtron, Inc. Micro Creations Musicode Software RIO Computers Step Ahead Software, Inc. Toad Computers Unicorn Publications WizWorks! WuzTECH/OMNIMON Peripherals Zubair Interfaces, Inc. This list includes the cream of the crop in Atari developers. There are plenty of innovative hardware and software products for everyone to behold (and take home with them). The Sheraton Reston Hotel reports a steady stream of people registering. It looks like we are going to have a grand party. Vendors will be receiving their final show data in a week or 10 days. Information on the banquet will be posted shortly, so keep your eyes on this space for more news. What Makes a show happen In a couple of recent phone conversations people have started off by asking: "is the WAACE show really going to take place?". I am afraid that these people do not understand what makes a show tick. The first crucial item is solid vendor support, particularly in the form of exciting products. Anyone who reads my previous post has to be aware that WAACE '91 has that kind of support. The second thing is the attitude of people towards the event itself. WAACE is more than justr an opportunity to buy Atari goods at a cheap price. It is a gathering point for people. We take care to offer interesting entertainment and forums for relaxation during those hours when the show floor is silent. I think it is fair to say that we have established a tone that many people enjoy. The third item is continuity. We have a nucleus of workers who have experienced the little thrills that the Atari world can toss up to distract people. We have been through it before and we know that none of thse little items will bring the world to an end. In fact I suspect that it would take some event like the prelude to the second coming to cancel the show this fall. In short, tell everyone you know that WAACE '91 IS GOING TO HAPPEN. We already have enough people coming to make a wonderful party. I am looking forward to seeing all of you there. WAACE '91 Banquet To those who have been asking for particulars on the WAACE banquet here's the scoop: Menu: Pork Loin Vindaloo or Chicken Italia (Marinated Loin of Pork (Baked with oregano and basil, with a Spicy and aromatic finished with a slice of prosciutto Vindaloo Sauce) and a combination of three fine Italian cheeses) Accompanied by fruit cup, garden salad with choice of two dressings, green beans, rice, rolls and butter, beverage, and peach Melba. A cash bar will be available during the dinner. Hotel banquet fare always elicits a few disparaging remarks. These were surprisingly few in number following last year's dinner, so that the Sheraton Reston appears to do better than most in this regard. Tickets are priced at $25 apiece. Send a self-addressed stamped envelope to: WAACE Banquet c/o Tom Stoddard 1039 S. Ironwood Rd Sterling, VA, 22170. While some tickets may be available at the show, it is best to reserve ahead to be sure of a seat. The evening's festivities will get underway with a poolside cocktail hour (cash bar) at 7 pm. The banquet will take place at 8 pm. Current Notes magazine will once again surprise everyone with its choice for "Author of the Year". Bill Moes, Dave Small, Andzej Wrotniak, and the Junkyard Pussycat are the past winners of this award. Nathan Potechin of ISD marketing, one of the true statesmen in the Atari developer community, will be our featured speaker. He will recount his experiences in the quest to bring outstanding applications onto the desktops of Atari users. Be sure to look for the post-banquet celebration. ------------ For Immediate Release WAACE AtariFest '91 Short Form: The Washington Area Atari Computer Enthusiasts will sponsor WAACE AtariFest 1991 on October 12 and 13 1991. The show will held at the Sheraton Reston Hotel in Reston, VA. Show hours will be from 10 am to 5 pm on both days. The show will feature shopping bargains, demonstrations, tutorials, seminars, anmd social events. This event will be the premier East Coast event for people who are interested in software and hardware for Atari computers. ___________________________ Cut here _____________________________ Long Form: The Washington Area Atari Computer Enthusiasts will sponsor WAACE AtariFest 1991 on October 12 and 13 1991. This event will be the premier East Coast event for people who are interested in software and hardware for Atari computers. The show will again be staged at the Sheraton Reston Hotel in Reston, VA. Show hours will be from 10 am to 5 pm on both days. In addition to the shopping bargains available from over thirty vendors there will be a full round of demonstrations, tutorials, and seminars. A banquet on Saturday evening will feature a special speaker on Atari matters and Current Notes Magazine's "Author of the Year" award. Special mixers will cap off the evening's festivities. Approximately 2000 visitors from all over the USA, Canada, and other foreign countries attended the 1990 edition of the show. The Sheraton Reston Hotel is a spacious, attractive facility located in a parklike setting near Washington, DC. The hotel is offering a special room rate of $59 per night plus tax to Fest goers. This hotel room rate includes passes to the show for room occupants. Call 703-620-9000 for reservations. Be sure to mention AtariFest '91. The number of rooms available at the special rate is limited, so make your reservations early. The price that WAACE will have to pay for the exhibit space is directly tied to the number of hotel rooms that are rented out. If you have any expectation at all of attending the event we would like you to reserve a room for Friday and Saturday nights. The WAACE show has established itself as the premier Atari event for East Coast Atari fans. ST Informer magazine, in its November 1991 issue, awarded the WAACE team its highest marks for their conduct of the 1990 show. WAACE attempts to provide a complete Atari experience for everyone. For additional Information please contact either of the following: General Chairman Vendor Coordinator Charles S. Smeton John D. Barnes P.O. Box 0122 7710 Chatham Rd Columbia, MD 21045-0122 Chevy Chase, MD 20815 GEMail: C.S.SMETON GEMail: J.D.Barnes CIS: 73047,2565 DELPHI: JDBARNES FNET: Charles Smeton, Node 500 Internet: JOHNBARNES@ENH.NIST.GOV Revision Date: 7 June 1991 ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ******************************