Info-Atari16 Digest Wed, 21 Aug 91 Volume 91 : Issue 447 Today's Topics: Atari CD-ROM? Blitter for Atari STFM Damocles DC (formatter?) Ethernet for the ST Generic shell for ttp? OVERSCAN PROBLEMS Packing GNU Phasar for other platforms Recommendations for PC-DOS emulator Spectre 256k ROM support (was: System 7 and Spectre GCR) (2 msgs) ST User mag. (was Re: Atari CD-ROM?) TeX troubles Uniterm source code what I think about GEM (2 msgs) Word Up? Word Perfect? Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU. Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored. If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please contact the redistributor, not us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 Aug 91 08:21:31 GMT From: mcsun!ukc!edcastle!hwcs!neil@uunet.uu.net (Neil Forsyth) Subject: Atari CD-ROM? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article Laurenz_Pruessner@hh.maus.de (Laurenz Pruessner) writes: >Neil Forsyth (ME!) neil%cs.hw.ac.uk @ SUB wrote on 13.08.91 09:06 >>If some third party developers have done this then I would not consider it an >>official upgrade. Official upgrades come from Atari with Atari documentation >>and do not get removed when you send your machine to Atari for repair. >>Any idea about what the German develpoers did to make it work? > >I am one of the developers, I did the software-modifications. I'm impressed. >YES, the modified TOS 2.05 runs fine on any ST and YES, TOS is copyrighted by >Atari. We should instantly stop talking about a project that is not yet >finished. We're looking forward to meeting Atari on the Atari Fair in >Dusseldorf and we'll have lots of things to discuss that should not be >discussed in the public before. Even if Atari Gmbh say "Hey that's neat. We'll take it" and Germany is flooded with lots of happy new TOS 2.x users that does not necessarily mean Atari US will welcome it. In fact I can see them saying that it is up to them to modify TOS not you and unless they do so I doubt they will support it. If you get Atari US on your side then it's in the bag. >Maybe we can say more about all of this in a week. Please do! I find the possibility of fitting TOS 2.x in my '86 ST exciting. Non hardware orientated people though may be less enthusiastic. +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ! DISCLAIMER:Unless otherwise stated, the above comments are entirely my own ! ! ! ! Neil Forsyth JANET: neil@uk.ac.hw.cs ! ! Dept. of Computer Science ARPA: neil@cs.hw.ac.uk ! ! Heriot-Watt University UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!neil ! ! Edinburgh, Scotland, UK "That was never 5 minutes!" ! +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 21 Aug 91 11:46:02 GMT From: noao!ncar!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!clarkson!CROVM3.vnet.ibm.com!MERWOOA@ari zona.edu Subject: Blitter for Atari STFM To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Does anybody have any schematics or other information regarding the fitting of a blitter chip to an ATARI 520 STFM. I have one of the first blitter ROM machines with space on the mother board for the blitter chip. I bought a blitter chip from Best Electronics at a recent UK show along with a PLCC socket. Unfortunately I managed to mangle the socket and need to get another from somewhere in the UK. Is fitting the chip simply a matter of soldering the socket and plugging in the blitter or are there other things that must be done?? Any help would be appreciated. Regards, Adrian Merwood ------------------------------ Date: 20 Aug 91 13:57:26 GMT From: mcsun!ukc!slxsys!ibmpcug!mantis!mathew@uunet.uu.net (Industrial Poet) Subject: Damocles To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Has anyone out there bought the data disks for Damocles? Are they any good? mathew [ Eagerly waiting for Mercenary III... ] ------------------------------ Date: 21 Aug 91 04:40:40 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.ed u!rjast1@arizona.edu (Robert J Anisko) Subject: DC (formatter?) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Okay, so I've found out about Mystic Formatter, which essentially was what I was looking for. But being the average ST user, I am never satisfied (oh no!). So how about maybe as one of their programs of the week make a NEW version, with a couple of changes. Instead of being an ACC, make it a TSR. Why you ask? Well an ACC can only be used if your program has access to the drop-down Accessory menu. Therefore you can't use it from within say a TOS program (or any program GEM or not that doesn't let you see the accessories). Also, instead of a standard hot-key, allow the user to choose his/her OWN hot-key combination (therefore allowing more compatibility with programs that may use a similar key-press). And finally, maybe include an option for those lucky souls who have a 1.44meg drive (whoever modified their system to handle these drives). So what do you think? Sounds reasonable? (even coming from me :-) Robert Anisko rjast1@unix.cis.pitt.edu Side note: reason I did not realize at first that Mystic Formatter was a background formatter: the copy I got had NO DOCS, and when I loaded it originally, it just looked like any other formatter, so I paid no attention originally to it. Oh well, all those wasted hours of foratting... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 91 16:09 EDT From: JOHNBARNES@ENH.NIST.GOV Subject: Ethernet for the ST To: Info-atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I was interested to see the description of the Riebl cards for Ethernet. I was a little perturbed to learn the price (upwards of $US 500) and that the software was so expensive. These prices put the products out of reach for US users, who have much cheaper alternatives available for the Mac and DOS platforms. I have seen advertisements for SCSI Ethernet adapters for Mac Plusses. It seemed to me that these were pretty cheap (around $US 300?). How hard would it be to adapt the NCSA telnet software packages to drive these devices from an Atari ST? Would ICD host adapters support these gadgets? Might it not be possible to build the session handling (Telnet) facilities into a program like STalker, which is capable of running in the backgound? Could the X-Windows client software that is available for the ST's be adapted to use an Ethernet port? If this were the case I think many university labs could make use of ST's as terminals to UNIX or VMS hosts. While an X workstation based on the ST might not be wonderful, it might be very economical indeed. It would also be interesting to hear what uses the Europeans make of the STs that they run on Ethernet. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Aug 91 02:59:54 GMT From: CIE.UOREGON.EDU!jamesl@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (James Lynn) Subject: Generic shell for ttp? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu A couple days ago I was looking around for a word count program, and found a program called "wc.ttp," which counts words and lines in an ASCII file just like the unix "wc." Anyway, when I use this program, it counts the words and such and flashes them onto the screen. Unfortunately, it goes back to desktop right afterwards, leaving me with less than 1/4 of a second to read them. Sorry, but I can't read that fast. There appears to be no provision for making it hold the info on screen like arc.ttp does, at least not that I can find. Obviously it's meant to be used with a shell program, like MT C-Shell, which I do not have and cannot afford. Does anybody know of a small, simple shell program I could use with this thing? All it really needs to do is let me use wc.ttp and hold the results on the screen until I hit a key, so I have time to read them. I'd like to keep it simple, not get a whole big program to replace the desktop that I have to learn how to use. I suspect such a thing would not be that hard to program, but I do not know how. Could somebody point me to such a program, say, on Terminator? I'd really appreciate it. Thanks! James Charles Lynn ------------------ jamesl@cie.uoregon.edu ------------------------------ Date: 21 Aug 91 14:23:33 GMT From: noao!asuvax!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.ac s.ohio-state.edu!dhbutler@arizona.edu (David H Butler) Subject: OVERSCAN PROBLEMS To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I just recently got a question about an Overscan problem addressed to me from "Thomas". However, I lost the file before I could reply. Thomas (and whoever else needs to know): I got the 60Hz version of the Overscan driver direct off of GEnie. The file name is simply "OVERSCAN.ARC". With Z-modem it only takes about 15 minutes I think... Good luck, || || || - David Butler (dhbutler@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu) || || || || || || H H RRRR [ High Resolution DTP ] || || || HHHH R R [ 1996 Summit St. Apt. B ] || || || H High RRRR [ Columbus, Ohio 43201 ] ||| || ||| R Resolution [ voice: (614)-297-7967 ] |||| || |||| R R [ BUSINESS CALLS ONLY ] - Desktop Publishing -[ For Free ST consulting ]- -(Just a little plug for my company)- -[ the Columbus Ohio area ]- -[ call Academic Computing ]- -[ Services, 9am - 5pm ]- -[ Monday - Friday at: ]- -[ (614)-292-2919 ]- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 91 09:43:37 BST From: Dave Wade Subject: Packing GNU To: info-atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I have tried and given up. The small ones will compress a little but not enough to get everything on one disk. Currently when I am forced to use GNU I use the following set up. 1) Boot disk with GULAM on. 2) Compiler disk with GCC + Prepass + compiler proper + assembler 3) Loader disk with GCC + loader 4) Work disk in drive B with my sources + system .h files. Of course then you have to do GCC -C file.c GCC file.o Appart from buying a hard disk has any body any suggestions. For now I just avoid GNU except where I am working with ANSI 'C' from somewhere else, and use SOZOBON which all fits on one disk. +------------------------------------------------------------+ | VM Sysprogs do it virtually all of the time !!!!! | | Reply To:- | | Janet:- DAVEW@UK.CO.SSS.D | | Bitnet:-DAVEW@D.SSS.CO.UK (Also most places outside UK) | +------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 91 16:10 EDT From: JOHNBARNES@ENH.NIST.GOV Subject: Phasar for other platforms To: Info-atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu To Steve La; I bought a copy of Phasar for the IBM for my brother-in-law. I purchased it directly from Marksman Technology. The price was around $80 or so, which makes Phasar cheaper than most of the alternatives. I understand that it is also available for the Amiga Line. You might try calling Antic Publishing in San Francisco to get a line on the products or on Marksman Technology (I would have to dig pretty hard, as my correspondence with Tom Marks is pretty old). Some people on the DOS platforms swear by Dollars and Sense, which was not successful on the ST line because of a badly done GEM port. I personally feel that the overall design of Phasar is superior, although some GEM snobs turn up their noses at its user interface. Techno of Berlin, who bills himself as a hardcore ST user, obviously does not understand the meaning of the word "flame". Steve La was not flaming when he asked his perfectly legitimate question. Steve at least has the decency to identify himself, which is more than can be said for Techno. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Aug 91 00:10:41 GMT From: ads.com!pdel@decwrl.dec.com (Peter Delevoryas) Subject: Recommendations for PC-DOS emulator To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I'm thinking about getting a PC imitator for my STe. I know there are a couple software versions, and also Supercharger. The question is, should I fork over the big bucks for a Supercharger, or can I be happy with one of the software-only hacks? Also, wasn't there going to be something coming out, either by Talon, or their competition, that would be really cool? Lastly, can I get the same performance by getting a used 286? It seems like anything over $500 wouldn't be worth it in that case. Or? I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who actually uses one of the above, and could tell me how they compare to a real PC. Thanks, Peter D. -- login name: L1-A In real life: Peter Delevoryas In any other life: a cheap imitation ------------------------------ Date: 21 Aug 91 04:30:21 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.ed u!rjast1@arizona.edu (Robert J Anisko) Subject: Spectre 256k ROM support (was: System 7 and Spectre GCR) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Aug19.145212.18256@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> dhbutler@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David H Butler) writes: >I agree with that. I would rather see an in-business GCR producing company, >than a company that makes a great 256K emulator and then gets sued out of >business. However, if he follows the same principles as before he should be OK >from what I've heard from legal-type friends. As long as he does not actually >sell the ROM's himself with the emulator then it would be very difficult to >take legal action (note: I may not know what I'm talking about here, I'm, just >repeating what I've heard from others...). Well, considering that Dave Small could always LICENSE the new chips off of this new company (assuming they won't rob people he same amount that Apple does) then Dave could even include the chips along with the system! Wouldn't that be cool? Robert Anisko rjast1@unix.cis.pitt.edu ------------------------------ Date: 21 Aug 91 09:59:15 GMT From: monsoon.Berkeley.EDU!kawakami@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (John Kawakami) Subject: Spectre 256k ROM support (was: System 7 and Spectre GCR) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu If dsmall uses the NuTek ROMS it should be easier for him to support them than the current scheme. Why? 1. NuTek will be working to reconcile incompatibilities between their ROMS and the Apple System and Finder software. Currently, dsmall is doing this work by himself. 2. NuTek will be selling their ROMS to 3rd party clone makers, presumably to increase their market share thus forcing programmers to make their code compatible with NuTek ROMS. To sell the ROMS, NuTek must either strictly regulate the hardware they will plug into, ala PC clones, or document how to write drivers for varied hardware platforms. I tend to lean toward the second (though I know nothing about the NuTek design) because it would allow the development of plug in boards for IBM PCs that would give them Mac compatibility as well. (Imagine a 486 + 68030 running Unix with DesqView windows for Windows and Mac A/UX with sub windows for Mac applications. And another DesqView window for Tetris!) 3. In theory, a lot of the testing would fall into the hands of NuTek and dsmall would get to work on other projects. I'd like to see a true Super- Drive adapter which would give me a floppy that spit out disks and write them at 1.44 meg too. Considering that the 1.44 meg adapters cost so much a cheap alternative that would also write Mac disks would probably do OK. John Kawakami kawakami@ocf.berkeley.edu ucbvax!ocf.berkeley.edu!kawakami ------------------------------ Date: 21 Aug 91 10:10:04 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!comp.vuw.ac.nz!actrix!Ale x.Valdez@arizona.edu (Alex Valdez) Subject: ST User mag. (was Re: Atari CD-ROM?) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Aug14.100048.7856@cged.co.uk> johnr@cged.co.uk (John Richards) writes: > > Subscribe to ST Applications, the magazine from the ST Club. It's by far > the best "serious" ST magazine in the UK. > -- > John Richards Details please! How does one get in touch with these people? Would they accept subscription from the far end of the planet? If so, for how much? Ta. -- ================================Alex Valdez============================= "Alas sais na naman, oras ng pagdidili-dili... Isaisip ang mabuti, ang masama'y iwaksi..." ------------------------------ Date: 21 Aug 91 05:50:01 GMT From: ogicse!orstcs!prism!thaanuj@uunet.uu.net (John Thaanum) Subject: TeX troubles To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Aug20.105125.1@simvax.labmed.umn.edu> davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu writes: >In article , S_DINGLER@iravcl.ira.uka.de >(|S| Florian Dingler) writes: >> If you got an 2 Meg machine, try dumping the formats yourself: >> >> You find the .TEX files in the archive INPUTS.LZH. For Plain TeX you'll need >> PLAIN.TEX. Just type >> >> tex 'plain \dump' -i > >This won't work with the standard 3.1 release on atari.archive, since there >is nothing called TEX.TTP. Instead, you have INITEX.TTP and VIRTEX.TTP. To >build the various formats, the commands would be: > >for TeX: > > initex 'plain \dump' > >for LaTeX: > > initex 'lplain \dump' > >for SliTex: > > initex 'splain \dump' > Well, I have 2.5 meg of ram, but that doesn't seem to be much of an issue. When I un-archive the texfiles at atari.archive, I don't find INITEX.TTP nor VIRTEX.TTP. I ftp'd /tex/tex31/texbin.lzh, and its main contents were TEX.TTP and BIGTEX.TTP, among a few others. Perhaps there was confusion during the directory restructure at atari.archive. >OR, if you don't have the necessary memory, I will look through my own archives >and find the copy of the format file mentioned (which I really did get from >the atari.archive server at one time!), and FTP it back so they'll be >available for everyone. > >> ( {\em I like \TeX\ !} ) > >ditto > >-- > >David Paschall-Zimbel davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu I wish to thank everybody for all the helpful hints. I will try them all when I finish catching up on mail and news. --- ** *** ** John Thaanum ** *** ** thaanuj@prism.cs.orst.edu ** *** ** thaanuj@mist.cs.orst.edu ** *** ** at445@cleveland.freenet.edu *** *** *** *** *** *** "Baseball, hotdogs, **** *** **** Atari ST's and Chevrolet!" ** *** ** ------------------------------ Date: 21 Aug 91 01:56:36 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!menudo.uh.edu!st 11w@arizona.edu (xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) Subject: Uniterm source code To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Anyone know where I can get the code for Uniterm? **************************************************************************** *** It's gnu and improved -- but it's still not unix! *** *** *** *** Dennis Gray, Jr. st11w@menudo.uh.edu *** *** st113@jetson.uh.edu *** *** dgray@sugar.hackercorp.com *** *** dennis@nuchat.sccsi.com *** **************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: 20 Aug 91 22:32:42 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu !connection!jerry@arizona.edu (Jerry Shekhel) Subject: what I think about GEM To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu azog@world.std.com (azog-thoth) writes: > >GEM: to copy from floppy to HD: > >Click on the hard drive icon, and open it up to the path. The open the >floppy, and drag the icon from floppy to hard drive. > >Windows: > >Open the file manager. After it scans the whole hard drive, open drive >a. Choose COPY under the menu FILE menu bar, and TYPE in the path > >Which is easier? > PLEASE get informed before you post. It'll make you look a lot less foolish. Windows: Click on the file manager if it isn't already running (ah the benefits of multitasking). Open a directory window to the hard drive. Do the same for the floppy drive. Drag the file from the floppy window to the hard drive window. Just like GEM. GEM: try to do the same while you're running a program. -- +-------------------+----------------------+---------------------------------+ | JERRY J. SHEKHEL | POLYGEN CORPORATION | When I was young, I had to walk | | Drummers do it... | Waltham, MA USA | to school and back every day -- | | ... In rhythm! | (617) 890-2175 | 20 miles, uphill both ways. | +-------------------+----------------------+---------------------------------+ | ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry | | jerry@polygen.com | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 21 Aug 91 09:53:30 GMT From: van-bc!jonh!jhenders@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (John Henders) Subject: what I think about GEM To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I'm sorry folks, couldn't resist on htis one. Too much time in news.groups lately, I guess. In <1991Aug20.223242.11352@ctr.columbia.edu>, Jerry Shekhel writes: > >PLEASE get informed before you post. It'll make you look a lot less >foolish. > < how Windows works like GEM deleted > > >GEM: try to do the same while you're running a program. You mean like you can with UIS, Maxifile, Harlekin, or one of several p.d disk manager type desk accessories. PLEASE etc.. -- John Henders jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca Vancouver,B.C or ubc.cs!van-bc!jonh!jhenders ------------------------------ Date: 21 Aug 91 00:26:23 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.ed u!gvlf3.gvl.unisys.com!tredysvr!cellar!revpk@arizona.edu (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano) Subject: Word Up? Word Perfect? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu fsctc@csduts1.lerc.nasa.gov (Clarence T. Chang) writes: > I am considering switching from First Word Plus to some other word processors > on our TT. Has anyone successfully run Word Perfect (WP) or Word Up (WUP) on > this beast? What are the respective merits and drawbacks? My printer is a > HP Deskjet Plus which can be used as a Laserjet II. I also have access to > other printers such as PS printers on the network. What do you think of thes > two packages? > > Clarence You might do well to check the sped of a PC emulator on your TT first, because Word Perfect 5.1 for the PC is the best thing on the market. """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Brian Siano, Delaware Valley Skeptics Rev. Philosopher-King of The First Church of the Divine Otis Redding revpk@Cellar.UUCP "Ecrasez l'enfame!" - Voltaire """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ******************************