Info-Atari16 Digest Tue, 30 Jul 91 Volume 91 : Issue 415 Today's Topics: A Decent Debugger Interface (was Re: An idea for DC Software? (wish list)) ANS: Reset-Proof Ramdisk ANS: Spectre GCR Custom floppy formatting Help! Help wanted: Dead 520st with EZRAM II upgrad, double fault halt detected Lattice C -- Single Pass? LZH Path LZH Program Plea for help <-- dead 1040! (2 msgs) Spectre GCR ST/STE sales - numbers required. TT memory (was allocation) (2 msgs) what I think about GEM (2 msgs) Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU. Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored. If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please contact the redistributor, not us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 Jul 91 22:10:26 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!wupost!micro-heart-of-gold.mit.edu!news .bbn.com!mips2!sprite!jtsillas@arizona.edu (James Tsillas) Subject: A Decent Debugger Interface (was Re: An idea for DC Software? (wish list)) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu If you are using motif 1.1, try mxgdb which is a motif translation of xxgdb. I recently posted it to alt.sources along with the first patch which allows you to build on Unix SysV.3.2 and SunOS 4.x. You will need GNU's gdb. -Jim. ------------------------------ Date: 30 JUL 91 18:41:28 CDT From: Z4648252 Subject: ANS: Reset-Proof Ramdisk To: In regards to the talked about topic: reset ramdisks, I'd like to recommend Double Click's DC RamIt. Not only does it have a "reset" proof feature, but it is amazingly fast for program loads and execution and is set up like an actual floppy. It is quite painless to use with a variety of setup options, not to mention the excellent support from DoubleClick. DC RamIt is part of DC Utilities 2.0, a great bargain in the sheer amount and quality of programs included with the package. Larry Rymal |>Atari ST Users of East Texas<| Stephen F. Austin State University, Nacogdoches, Texas ------------------------------ Date: 30 JUL 91 18:55:08 CDT From: Z4648252 Subject: ANS: Spectre GCR To: David Butler made some excellent recommendations on how to set Spectre up and what programs to use. One correction needs to be made, though, his statement about System 6.0.5 and TrueType. System 6.0.5 and TrueType work perfectly together. Make sure you get the total TrueType package which includes the TrueType INIT. This INIT is required for TrueType operation if System 7.0 is not used. ATM works perfectly, as he said, however, I have moved away from it mainly due to the fact that so many new TrueType fonts are coming out. Note that the System 7.0 installation kit includes TrueType fonts. Even though Spectre is not 7.0 ready, these fonts can be used. Also, be aware that the new Font DA mover is required for working with TrueType fonts. I think System 6.0.7 includes the newest Font DA mover. If not, it is included with System 7.0. ResEdit, as David says, is also highly recommended but is not for novices. It is a very easy program to use for modification of resources. Because of the ability to modify the very heart of a program, this program can be quite dangerous if you are not used to such meddling. For those of us who are, it is a royal blast to use! System 6.0.7 works with Spectre, but will not give sound ability for everything, such as in some applications or games for the Spectre since Apple changed the sound manager in System 6.0.7. There is no need to use System 6.0.7. System 6.0.5 is the recommended system software for the current release of Spectre GCR 3.0. Again, be aware that TrueType works perfectly with 6.0.5 but you have to have the TrueType INIT installed. Larry Rymal |>Atari ST Users of East Texas<| Stephen F. Austin State University, Nacogdoches, Texas ------------------------------ Date: 30 Jul 91 18:32:17 GMT From: beguine!bbs.oit.unc.edu@mcnc.org (Dan Halevy) Subject: Custom floppy formatting To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Is there a program available that will allow a standard DSDD ST drive to read/analyse a custom format (let's say one of the many CP/M disk formats) and then either initialize other disks with the same format, or just read/write to this disk? I already know about a shareware program called DISKMECH, but it's use has been very limited, and its ability to duplicate a custom-formatted disk is questionable. Thanks, Dan dan%paradox.psych.columbia.edu@columbia.edu -- The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service. internet: bbs.oit.unc.edu or 128.109.157.30 ------------------------------ Date: 31 Jul 91 04:53:24 GMT From: arizona.edu!cerritos.edu!nic.csu.net!usc!samsung!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!cb.ecn.pu rdue.edu!whitehe@arizona.edu (Drew D Whitehead) Subject: Help! To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Hello. I need some help. With my purchase of the Calamus Font Editor, I have discovered that I need more than 6 Accessories. Is there any programs out there that will allow you do add more than 6? If the people at ISD had made the thing a PROGRAM, it would be a lot easier. Thanks for your help Drew ------------------------------ Date: 29 Jul 91 18:44:01 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!orion.oac.uci.edu!ucivax!dhw68k!zardoz.cpd.com !infotec!lee@arizona.edu (Lee Van Dyke) Subject: Help wanted: Dead 520st with EZRAM II upgrad, double fault halt detected To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I have a dead 520st that had been upgraded with an EZRAM II board, it worked fine until I moved the unit. The processor is halted, all socketed chips have been reseated. Any one have similar problems? -- Lee Van Dyke UUCP: ...sun!sunkist!infotec!lee Infotec or Costa Mesa, CA ...zardoz!infotec!lee (714) 241-8254 ------------------------------ Date: 31 Jul 91 01:16:06 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!utzoo!lsuc!jimomura@ar izona.edu (Jim Omura) Subject: Lattice C -- Single Pass? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <3004@atari.UUCP> apratt@atari.UUCP (Allan Pratt) writes: >>In article <040103.22763@timbuk.cray.com> marc@sequoia.cray.com >>(Marc Bouron) writes: >>>I also write my C programs with main() at the >>>`top', but I also religiously declare all the functions I'm going to use. > >and jimomura@lsuc.on.ca (Jim Omura) writes: >> It looks like it's a habit I'm going to have to get into. > >I can't address the issue of whether the Lattice compiler really requires >this, because I don't know what version you have and I can't try it, but if For the record, I'm using Lattice C version 5.06.02, with the first edition (Mar. 1990) manuals. As I understand it, the "current off-the-shelf version" is this compiler, but with the new second edition manuals. I will be calling Goldleaf shortly to see if I can get the new manuals. >it does, it's wrong. My ANSI C spec (admittedly a draft from 10/86) in >Section 3.3.2.2 (Function Calls) states: > > "If no declaration is in scope for an identifier used as the first >expression in a function call [that is, the function to be called], the >identifier is implicitly declared exactly as if, in the innermost block >containing the function call, the declaration > > extern int identifier(); > >appeared." > >Thus, the behavior is not "implementation defined" but very specifically >defined by the spec. > I think it's worth it for me to go over what I think is the situation for people thinking about buying a Lattice C compiler. First, the compiler has a dizzing array of switching combinations. I won't bother trying to summarize them all, but the relevant switches are as follows: -c This switch takes 16 different modifying "subswitches". When this switch is NOT used, "[T]he compiler defaults to compatibility with previous releases with many ANSI C language features ... " Note that the default case is NOT full ANSI compatibility mode. Now, for full ANSI compatibility you use "-ca". Furthermore "-caf" will give full ANSI compatibility and make function prototypes necessary in ALL cases. If you want to make function prototypes necessary, but WITHOUT full ANSI compatibility, then you can use "-cf". But there are more dialect variations: "-cl" " ... allows a pre-ANSI language dialect." What are the characteristics of this dialect? It's not entirely clear, but I would presume that it refers to Lattice 3.04 which is covered somewhat in Appendix G in the manual. But I have NOT found any clear statement to this effect. The appendix also refers to HiSoft C, so there's some reason to doubt this. And also there's "-co" which " ... [p]rovides a compatibility mode to use the pre-ANSI style preprocessor found in previous releases of the compiler. The most important aspect of this occurs in substitution of symbols within quoted strings." -j "This option allows control over the error messages reported by the compiler. . . ." Ok, so that's an overview of the problem area I've been concerned with. I've tried a *lot* of variations and yet have not covered all the possibilities, but I think I have a feeling for what's going on. IF you make function prototypes completely necessary, in effect there isn't any problem. You simply have to have function prototypes everywhere and if you have them, you get no warnings or error reports. IF NOT, then IF you have the functions in "bottom up order", all in the same source code, then again there's no problem. You won't get any warnings or errors (ok, assuming everything else is right :-). But if you use a different function definition order, you will get a WARNING (non-fatal) that the compiler is presuming an "int" is to be passed. Now, that's not in itself terrible, but what I'm used to in other compilers is that such warnings only occur where there's reason to doubt the situation. I would expect to be able to get rid of the warnings by properly declaring type "int" returns and forcing dummy values to be returned, or alternatively, by specific casting of functions as they are used. NEITHER of these approaches will stop the Lattice C compiler from issueing these clearly unnecessary warning. Thus they are clutter and make it difficult to isolate important warning. There are 2 methods to get rid of the warnings. First is to use the "-j" switch to stop *all* warnings of this type. That's not really great because you might want these warnings in appropriate cases. The other alternative is to make your function declarations. So what it boils down to is that despite all those variations of switching, you might as well just stick in function prototypes all over the place anyway. But there's really nothing *wrong* with the compiler per se. At least not in regard to this problem. -- Jim Omura, 2A King George's Drive, Toronto, (416) 652-3880 lsuc!jimomura Byte Information eXchange: jimomura ------------------------------ Date: 30 Jul 91 14:57:03 GMT From: comp.vuw.ac.nz!actrix!Roger.Sheppard@uunet.uu.net (Roger Sheppard) Subject: LZH Path To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu How does one LZH a Folder that is say 3 deep, that also contains folders, but not to include paths of the 3 folders in the archive. Sample Path..C:\path1\path2\main\auto\boot.prg \folder\files.etc \program.prg So all the Files and Folders that in Main must be in the Archive but not \path1\path2\main... The only way that I have found so far is to copy the contents of the main folder to disk, then LZH the disk. Note: the LZH must include folders Using LZH 1.3 or LZH1321/200A etc.. -- *** Roger W. Sheppard * Roger.Sheppard@bbs.actrix.gen.nz *** *** 85 Donovan Rd * * At least I don't Flicker, not *** *** Kapiti New Zealand.. * like a dying light globe. ! *** ------------------------------ Date: 30 Jul 91 18:23:00 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!rpi!bu.edu!m2c!wpi.WPI.EDU!juemar@arizona.edu (Julian Tyrone Bean) Subject: LZH Program To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Hi, What de-archiver do I need to restore .lzh files. I looked in some places, but was unable to decide which one was needed. Julian ------------------------------ Date: 31 Jul 91 02:46:34 GMT From: ogicse!orstcs!prism!thaanuj@uunet.uu.net (John Thaanum) Subject: Plea for help <-- dead 1040! To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Jul25.161127.14083@disk.uucp> unknown@disk.uucp (unknown) writes: >Well, in my old user group (WACE) we had a cure for that.. >Lift the computer about three inches off the table, and drop it! >I know this sounds drastic, but it works.. The condition you described is usually due to some of the chips inside being loose, and dropping the computer is like droping a hammer on its handle to push the head on tighter.. >(NOTE: Although this works, don't hold me responsible if your St winds up in several small and inconvenient peices :) ) > It seems that physical abuse has been an effective form of therapy for sick Ataris for years. My first exposure to an Atari was my friends 800 right about 10 years ago. The BASIC cartridge would lock up, and he'd open the little door over the cartridge slot. And then WHAM!! he'd slap his fist down on the cart as hard as he could. Then it would function fine for the rest of the day. There is something to be said for machines that can survive such treatment... >-- >_______________________________________________________________________________ >Shawn Beltz :) :) :) The opinions expressed in this message are >unknown@disk.UUCP the opinions expressed in this message are >uunet!ukma!corpane!disk!unknown the opinions expressed in this message.... John Thaanum thaanuj@prism.cs.orst.edu ------------------------------ Date: 31 Jul 91 03:30:29 GMT From: munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!uqcspe!cs.uq.oz.au!marshall@uunet.uu.net (Marshall Harris (G.M.)) Subject: Plea for help <-- dead 1040! To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In <1991Jul31.024634.20034@lynx.CS.ORST.EDU> thaanuj@prism.cs.orst.edu (John Thaanum) writes: >In article <1991Jul25.161127.14083@disk.uucp> unknown@disk.uucp (unknown) writes: >>Well, in my old user group (WACE) we had a cure for that.. >>Lift the computer about three inches off the table, and drop it! >>..... >It seems that physical abuse has been an effective form of therapy for sick >Ataris for years. My first exposure to an Atari was my friends 800 right >There is something to be said for machines that can survive such treatment... >>-... Years ago I was a Radar mechanic in the RAF. The standard way to get a radar set working again was to kick it hard with one's steel-toed marching boots. Not much progress over the years! -- _-_|\ marshall@cs.uq.oz.au (Marshall Harris)|ph:+61 7 365 2908 / B <--+ Department of Computer Science :fx:+61 7 365 1999 \_.-._/ | University of Queensland, St.Lucia v +--Brisbane, Queensland, 4072 AUSTRALIA (The Sub-Tropics) ------------------------------ Date: 30 Jul 91 23:15:31 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!rpi!psinntp!rodan.acs.syr.edu!ggreenbe@arizona .edu (Gerald Greenberg) Subject: Spectre GCR To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Jul29.142017.8877@sae.com> malay@sae.com (Bob Malay) writes: >Hey, >I just got a brand new GCR w/ROMS and I was wondering if anybody out there >can give me a list of Mac goodies that I should be on the look out for, >particulary, version numbers. Like what version of System/Finder is the >definitive one to use? > >Bob Malay OK, Bob, I was going to write you personally, but I think this is valid for all Spectre users: Access PC. This is a program from Insignia Solutions that lets you access msdos (and hence, ST) disks while in Mac mode! No need to transfer files...just work on your ST or msdos disk while in Mac mode. I just discovered this myself recently and find it to work fantastically. The program costs about $60-$65 mail order. The one problem (not really a problem, but an inconvenience) is that while Access PC can access MSDOS hard drives and syquest drives on a 'real' Mac, it cannot do this under Spectre, since Spectre does not recognize scsi! ***Why can't this be faked out somehow for this use?*** Wouldn't it be great to use your ST syquest cartridge while in Spectre? Anyway, I still find it a very useful program just accessing my ST/MSDOS floppies. I also would recommend MacTools Deluxe. Good disk recovery program AND you can use the backup, once you format your hard disks from within Mac mode. Disinfectant from mac archives is a good anti-virus program. WriteNow is a good wordprocessor, but I find Word4 more powerful for certain things, and Word still is quite acceptibly fast...WordPerfect 2, however, seems to have some problems (as you may have seen in my earlier posts). You're going to need Stuffit, probably, if you want to get software from ftp sites. That's about all I can think of now. Maybe we can get Dave Small to cook up something for AcessPC? (Bob...I hope to get back to you with the monitor info...) --Gerry ggreenbe@rodan.acs.syr.edu ------------------------------ Date: 31 Jul 91 01:02:43 GMT From: munnari.oz.au!metro!dmssyd.syd.dms.CSIRO.AU!megadata!swanee@uunet.uu.net (Geoff Swan) Subject: ST/STE sales - numbers required. To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Hello all, Does anybody have official figures of the number of Atari ST/STE's sold in each country? In particular I'm interested in sale figures for UK, Germany, Holland, France, Australia and the US. Any others would also be appreciated. Many thanking-you's in advance, Geoff Swan. (swanee@megadata.oz) ------------------------------ Date: 30 Jul 91 13:24:03 GMT From: mcsun!hp4nl!phigate!prle!prles2!cst2!meulenbr@uunet.uu.net (Frans Meulenbroeks) Subject: TT memory (was allocation) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu This is in reply to which is better STe or TT. Allen Pratt mentions that the TT can use VME cards. I think few people who buy a TT will care. At least I won't. As far as memory concerns. Yes you can have more memory in the TT, but it will cost some $$. The 68882 is definitely a benefit if you do a lot of math work. For graphics programs/text processing/compiling/program development there is no gain in it. Also don't overestimate the 32 Mhz 68030 (I did; the TT was not as fast as I expected it to be). The memory subsystem still runs at 16 Mhz, not 32, and that is a major bottleneck. The TT when running in ST ram performs about 3 times as fast as a 1040. In TT ram the gain is about 4.6 (figures based on dhrystone runs under MINIX; same binary, so no use is made of the special 030 specific instructions; both caches on and in burst fill mode) ST games typically don't run on the TT, or are too fast to play. It seems that most utilites are not that much of a problem. Furthermore the TOS 3.05 desktop is definitely impressive. If you have to choose between an STe or TT definitely look at the use you are going to make of it, the amount of money you can afford etc. I strongly recommend buying the 6MB or 8MB models which have TT ram. The price/performance ration drops by having TT ram. -- Frans Meulenbroeks (meulenbr@prl.philips.nl) Philips Research Laboratories ------------------------------ Date: 30 Jul 91 20:14:56 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!wupost!zazen!doug.cae.wisc.edu!carter@arizona. edu (Gregory Carter) Subject: TT memory (was allocation) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article meulenbr@cst.prl.philips.nl (Frans Meulenbroeks) writes: >This is in reply to which is better STe or TT. >Allen Pratt mentions that the TT can use VME cards. I think few people >who buy a TT will care. At least I won't. >As far as memory concerns. Yes you can have more memory in the TT, but >it will cost some $$. >The 68882 is definitely a benefit if you do a lot of math work. >For graphics programs/text processing/compiling/program development >there is no gain in it. >Also don't overestimate the 32 Mhz 68030 (I did; the TT was not as fast >as I expected it to be). The memory subsystem still runs at 16 Mhz, not >32, and that is a major bottleneck. >The TT when running in ST ram performs about 3 times as fast as a 1040. >In TT ram the gain is about 4.6 (figures based >on dhrystone runs under MINIX; same binary, so no use is made of the >special 030 specific instructions; both caches on and in burst fill >mode) > >ST games typically don't run on the TT, or are too fast to play. >It seems that most utilites are not that much of a problem. >Furthermore the TOS 3.05 desktop is definitely impressive. > >If you have to choose between an STe or TT definitely look at the >use you are going to make of it, the amount of money you can afford etc. >I strongly recommend buying the 6MB or 8MB models which have TT ram. >The price/performance ration drops by having TT ram. >-- >Frans Meulenbroeks (meulenbr@prl.philips.nl) > Philips Research Laboratories Good lord people, if your going to spend 3 G's on a home computer why not get one that is REALLY AWESOME and has a 040 in it? You guessed it, NeXT! You get a nice UNIX, nice apps, AWESOME DISPLAY, AWESOME memory, VIRTUAL MEMORY TO BOOT TOO!!! I wouldn't consider a TT unless you could get it at developers prices, as REGULAR RETAIL price. TT is just not that great, hardware wise. Although if you have never had anything else, and just upgraded from a ST...then I suppose it would be great. It would be a great computer if the price was realistic, considering what you get. But it just isn't. --Gregory ------------------------------ Date: 28 Jul 91 23:08:00 GMT From: math.fu-berlin.de!fub!dobag.in-berlin.de!nicedel!artcom0!hb.maus.de!m.maus.de!M artin_Gaeckler@uunet.uu.net (Martin Gaeckler) Subject: what I think about GEM To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu >WINDOWS looks great but, compared to GEM or the Mac OS, it is quite clumsy. >If you want to copy a file, you have to run the File Manager, find the file >you want to copy and then TYPE out the destination INCLUDING pathways! Yikes, No, that's not right. You may drag the file(s) you want to copy to that win- dow where you want to move the file(s). If you hold the Control-Key while you drag the files they wille be copied (not moved). regards Martin from bavaria ------------------------------ Date: 30 Jul 91 22:55:45 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!worl d!azog@arizona.edu (azog-thoth) Subject: what I think about GEM To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <11697@m.maus.de> Martin_Gaeckler@m.maus.de (Martin Gaeckler) writes: > >>WINDOWS looks great but, compared to GEM or the Mac OS, it is quite clumsy. >>If you want to copy a file, you have to run the File Manager, find the file >>you want to copy and then TYPE out the destination INCLUDING pathways! Yikes, > >No, that's not right. You may drag the file(s) you want to copy to that win- >dow where you want to move the file(s). If you hold the Control-Key while you >drag the files they wille be copied (not moved). > >regards Martin from bavaria Yea, but even so, its still rather clumsy. Think about the work needed to copy a file from your floppy to the hard drive. The above is needed, because (usually), you cant open a window onto the floppy. You could create a folder called Floppy, and use Preferences to set path to A:, but thats still awfully clumsy. And why press a keyboard key when using a mouse? Isnt that the point of a GUI? Windows may be prettier than GEM, but its _real_ easy to get things done, IMHO +---------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+ | Billy D'Augustine | I beg to differ! | | azog@world.std.com | -- Prong -- | +---------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ******************************