Info-Atari16 Digest Thu, 11 Jul 91 Volume 91 : Issue 384 Today's Topics: Amiga is better then [sic] what??? Atari ST Multitasking?? Author(s) of Alchimie Jr. - A Midi Sequencer Colour monitor died... Double Click programs GEM and C help... Help in selling an ST Mgif 3.5 Need 68000 socket adapter New stuff at atari.archive.umich.edu PageStream VS Calmus Really dumb question about the 68000 skates.lzh skates.lzh at terminator software QDOS emulators on the ST? STE paddle ports - electrical spec What's the best database f Who sells Turbo-C in the US Zoo 2.1 - first impressions Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU. Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored. If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please contact the redistributor, not us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 10 Jul 91 16:43:21 GMT From: mcrware!mwca!bill@uunet.uu.net (Bill Sheppard) Subject: Amiga is better then [sic] what??? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <679032652.0@therip.FidoNet> Rod.Fulk@f24.n228.z1.FidoNet.Org (Rod Fulk) writes: >However if you ever want to use a computer as a multi user system well then >niether the ST or the Amiga will work well as is.. Unless you run OS-9 on either of them... -- ############################################################################## # Bill Sheppard -- bills@microware.com -- {uunet,sun}!mcrware!mwca!bill # # Microware Systems Corporation -- OS-9 / OS-9000 / CD-RTOS -- (408)980-0201 # ##### Opinions expressed are my own, though you'd be wise to adopt them! ##### ------------------------------ Date: 10 Jul 91 00:05:01 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio -state.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!bilver!alex@arizona.edu (Alex Matulich) Subject: Atari ST Multitasking?? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Rod.Fulk@f24.n228.z1.FidoNet.Org (Rod Fulk) writes: >Most programs on the ST are powerful enough that they do not need to use >multi tasking to get other features... That's a matter of opinion. What you end up with is a bunch of programs doing similar things (like file dialog boxes) in different ways, resulting in a non-uniform user interface from one application to the next. >Sure the St has very well running TSR's which is the main type of programmost >amiga people do multi task with day to day... Amigas do not use TSRs. A TSR is either running, or waiting. TSRs don't run concurrently with anything else. >I can download in the back ground or upload.. I can run a bbs in the >background too.. (Citadel via one of many multi tasking kernals) >The beef is the ST doesnt really NEED multi tasking... Background file transfers do not need multitasking. You can't, however, play a game while calculating a raytraced picture, edit a source file while compiling another entire application, or play music while compiling a program AND editing another AND downloading something else in the background. You need multitasking for that. Once you have it, you don't want to do without. >The current features really make multi tasking pretty worthless for most >functions. Try it out first. >However if you ever want to use a computer as a multi user system well then >niether the ST or the Amiga will work well as is.. Unless you're running unix on the Amiga. -- _ |__ Alex Matulich /(+__> Unicorn Research Corp, 4621 N Landmark Dr, Orlando, FL 32817 //| \ UUCP: alex@bilver.uucp ...uunet!tarpit!bilver!alex ///__) bitnet: IN%"bilver!alex@uunet.uu.net" ------------------------------ Date: 10 Jul 91 18:44:20 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!caen!news.cs.in diana.edu!msi.umn.edu!cs.umn.edu!thelake!steve@arizona.edu (Steve Yelvington) Subject: Author(s) of Alchimie Jr. - A Midi Sequencer To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu [In article <1991Jul10.025516.1693@ccu.umanitoba.ca>, umhagma1@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Dr. Phrancinstyne) writes ... ] > a few questions. It doesn't seem that they have an internet address that I > could get a hold of them at, so if anyone knows who these people are and how > I could get a hold of them it would be extremely appreciated. > > I noticed that they have 4 places that you can get a hold of them at: > by mail, (to Switzerland, and I am in Canada); > or through one of the following (all of which I don't have access to, I don't > think): > COMPUSERVE ID 100016,156 > BIX ID DCANEVESI > DELPHY ID DCANEVESI That CompuServe address looks fishy (most of them start with a 7, not a 1) but you should be able to send email to any CompuServe subscriber by following these rules: * Change the comma in the user ID to a period. * Add @compuserve.com This method should work from any Internet site and any UUCP site running a reasonably non-brain-damaged mailer. CIS subscribers can send mail to Internet and other domain-addressed sites by addressing it to: >INTERNET: user@site.domain where, of course, user@site.domain == your address. BIX and DELPHI are not at this time reachable from the real world. Neither is GEnie (but they're working on it). ---- Steve Yelvington Marine on St. Croix, Minnesota ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jul 91 01:50:53 GMT From: world!azog@decwrl.dec.com (azog-thoth) Subject: Colour monitor died... To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Does anyone know where, in the continential USA :-) I can send my Atari Colour monitor for repair? Its an SC1224 (I think). Shortly after it died, I opened it up, and found a blown fuse, and when I replaced it, it blew the fuse again... Or perhaps this is a common problem? Or perhaps someone can give a hint where to look for a short? I ordered a new SM124 monochrome monitor, new for $155. But I do wish I had colour, but the new colours (and used) are a tad on the expensive side. In the meanwhile, I have to use a VT320 for my telecom needs :-( +---------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+ | Billy D'Augustine | Close your eyes, what do you see? Dreams in | | azog@world.std.com | rhyme with reality. - Fates Warning | +---------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jul 91 01:33:02 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!van-bc!jonh!jhender s@arizona.edu (John Henders) Subject: Double Click programs To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In <1991Jul10.205242.22251@informatik.uni-erlangen.de>, Claus Brod writes: ...folowup to request for 8x8 font installer. > >Yes, of course. By using GEMINI 8-) > I'd like to see a DC program that allows the same keyboard window handling that Gemini uses work with applications. Control D to close control W to rotate through, etc. If you can do DC Topper, then this should be possible. Does DC Topper work with Gemini yet? -- John Henders jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca MIND over MIDI Productions or ubc.cs!van-bc!jonh!jhenders Vancouver,B.C ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jul 91 00:05:35 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio -state.edu!linac!att!pacbell.com!ucsd!sdcc6!sdcc13!wernst@arizona.edu (WarDoggie woof woof..) Subject: GEM and C help... To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I'm a C newbie and am having a little trouble working with GEM. Is there a standard way of dealing with GEM objects? Beyond "objc_change," I mean -- I'll need to edit flags and such. I've fiddled with a few ways, none of which seem very elegant. Could someone post some code that will show how to load up a random number of trees and edit any particular attribute of any of those trees? Thanks... ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jul 91 04:54:11 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio -state.edu!linac!att!pacbell.com!ucsd!sdcc6!euclid!maclab@arizona.edu (Macintosh Lab) Subject: Help in selling an ST To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Hi! I'm a starving college student, and I've come to the point where I need to sell my old Atari ST to get some money. Two problems: first, I've been "away" from the Atari community for a while, and I'm not sure what my equipment is worth (or even worth selling). Second, I've never bought or sold used computer equipment before, so I don't really know what kinds of hassles to watch out for. So my questions are: 1. What's this pile of equipment worth? (and I'd really prefer to sell it all at once). 2. What do I have to worry about when selling it (payment method, warranty, and all the other legal junk) If you can help me with either of these questions, please email your responses to me at sakelley@ucsd.edu. I will post a summary to the net if there is enough interest. And, incidentally, if you're interested in buying this stuff, please let me know! Here's the list of equipment: Hardware ------------ Atari 1040ST, Serial# A179I1025857 No internal modifications, has standard 1mb RAM External security cable attached Includes power cable and Mouse Atari SM124 Monochrome Monitor, Serial# N172103532S Has external security cable attached Includes power cable Stari SF314 External Floppy Disk Drive, Serial# A17B015294 External security cable attached THIS DRIVE NEEDS SERVICE-- IT HAS FORMATTING PROBLEMS E. Arthur Brown Co. 1040 Composite Cable Allows ST to generate monochrome composite video and audio Practical Solutions VideoKey Allows ST to generate color composite video and audio. Includes RF Modulator. Can be used to record to a VCR. (Requires appropriate cables. Manual is missing.) Software ------------ Atari ST USA Language disk (1 disk) (i.e. the disk that comes with the ST) Mark Williams C (4 disks) Ser#CAG-1488-2.1.7 or Ser# CAG-2888-2.1.7 (4 disks) Mark Williams C 3.0 Update (3 disks) Ser# RAG-3288-3.0.6 OSS Personal Pascal V2.0 (3 disks) Ser# AD0S01 10895 Mind Mine MT-Forth 83 (1 disk) Ser# 862028 PC-Ditto (1 disk) Ser# 024881 (fairly old version) Leisure Suit Larry, Ver 1.04 (2 disks) Ser# CG71770B Leisure Suit Larry II, Ver 1.001.006 (3 disks) Ser# 1.000.159 Misc. software (PD, Shareware, Antic, START, etc.) (for some of this the manuals are on disk) ------------------------------------------------------ Crystal A-RAM Xlisp 1.7 MicroEmacs collection Flash 1.5 (terminal program) A-Seka (68000 assembler) Icon Version 7 (a programming language) START disk, Fall 1987 Books & Printed Materials ----------------------------- Atari ST Internals, by Abacus Software Printed Documentation for some PD & Shareware 18 Atari-related magazines (somewhat old) Old Sales Brochures and Catalogs NOTE: All hardware and software has the original documentation, except where noted above. Thanks in advance for any help anyone can give me! ----------------------------------------------- Scott Kelley, sakelley@ucsd.edu 6699 Beadnell Way #138, San Diego, CA 92117 ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jul 91 03:15:33 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!apple!portal!cup.portal.com!Bryan_Jones_Woodwo rth@arizona.edu Subject: Mgif 3.5 To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Thanks I'll be looking forward to it. What do you think the largest image it will do is? 100K? Bryan_Jones_Woodworth@cup.portal.com ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jul 91 05:42:53 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!jato!hanauma.jpl.nasa.gov!hyc@arizona.edu (Howard Chu) Subject: Need 68000 socket adapter To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Jul3.201423.20302@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> I wrote: >Thanks for all the replies. Every reply recommended I contact a company >called: > Emulation Technology, Inc. > 2344 Walsh Avenue, Bldg.F > Santa Clara, CA 95051 > FAX: 408-982-0664 > TEL: 408-982-0660 > >They wanted $240 for this adapter. I ordered one anyway, despite the amazing >cost. I'm still going to keep looking for other sources, but this is it so far. If anyone else is interested, I was just told of another source, a company called FAST Technology, based in Massachuetts. (Sorry I don't have their address/ph# handy right now.) At any rate, they are said to sell an adapter for a mere $45. A pittance compared to the $240 charged above. FYI, the $240 adapter consists of a PLCC "plug," which is basically a squarish block about 3/4" high, with gold contacts for the PLCC socket. This is on the underside of a piece of PC board. This board is attached to a second board by two rows of about 3/8" high pins/standoffs. On the second board is a standard DIP socket (64 pins) as well as 2 rows of additional leads pointing in parallel with the PC board surface (for attaching test equipment). It's somewhat impractical for my needs, since I wanted something very compact for inserting a replacement CPU... -- -- Howard Chu @ Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA Disclaimer: How would I know, I just got here! ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jul 91 00:42:21 GMT From: lll-winken!iggy.GW.Vitalink.COM!widener!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!sharkey!umich !terminator!terminator.cc.umich.edu!weiner@uunet.uu.net (Jeff Weiner) Subject: New stuff at atari.archive.umich.edu To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Ok folks, there's alot of new stuff on it's way in. Big thanks to e everyone who's uploaded something or sent in some index updates. I'll buy you a beer, now that I can :). Here's something that Michal wanted me to post for him regarding his recent upload: A new version (1.4) of szadb debugger is available from atari.archive. Executables, sources and documentation. For those who are unfamiliar with it - this is a low level ST debugger patterned after Un*x adb. szadb keeps debugger and program screens separate thus allowing for a sane debugging of GEM programs. It also understands symbol tables from many compilers. Even if your particular one is not on the list - you may easily add it yourself. The new version adds a support for "long" 22-character symbols optionally produced by recent versions of gcc loader. It also can be run not only on ST but also in all resolutions on TT automagically adjusting itself to the current display parameters. Happy and productive debugging, Michal ========================================================================= Michal Jaegermann, ntomczak@vm.ucs.ualberta.ca ========================================================================= Well, that's about it for now. Have fun and stay away from dancing lamas. weiner -- Jeff Weiner --- weiner@{engin, atari.archive}.umich.edu ------------------------------ Date: 9 Jul 91 20:55:49 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!rpi!uupsi!mpoint!ritz@arizona.edu (Chris Mauritz) Subject: PageStream VS Calmus To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Jul8.210511.4494@doug.cae.wisc.edu> carter@engr.wisc.edu (Gregory Carter) writes: >Calamus? > >PageStream? > >HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA. :-) > >Your joking right? Well, I have seen both of these programs. Calamus is by FAR a superior product, no ifs ands or buts. The only reason, however, I could see for buying an ST for DTP is a severely tight budget. A Mac Classic or Mac LC with Pagemaker costs a little more, but provides superior results. For anyone who has serious DTP work to do, I don't think I could recommend the Atari. For casual DTP use, an ST with Calamus is a nice cheaper alternative, though not significantly cheaper (I think the price of the software will make the biggest difference). Cheers, Chris (mellowing with age) Mauritz p.s. Does Calamus work on the TT? -- ------------------------------------+--------------------------------------- Chris Mauritz |People are strange ritz@msb.com |when you're a stranger. Copyright (C) 1991 |The Doors- ------------------------------ Date: 10 Jul 91 00:06:54 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio -state.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!bilver!alex@arizona.edu (Alex Matulich) Subject: Really dumb question about the 68000 To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Jul9.153501.22688@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> schultzd@sierra.egr.msu.edu (Count Zero Interrupt) writes: >The TOS used in machines other than the STEs and TTs is chip specific. >That is, it will not work on anything other than a 68000. Not only that, the original poster was wondering if he could plop in a 68030 in place of the 68000. They aren't even pin compatible, let alone bus compatible. -- _ |__ Alex Matulich /(+__> Unicorn Research Corp, 4621 N Landmark Dr, Orlando, FL 32817 //| \ UUCP: alex@bilver.uucp ...uunet!tarpit!bilver!alex ///__) bitnet: IN%"bilver!alex@uunet.uu.net" ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jul 91 04:57:30 GMT From: pa.dec.com!hollie.rdg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!aidev.enet.dec.com!miskinis@decw rl.dec.com (John Miskinis) Subject: skates.lzh To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Hi, YES, I tried it in color (med and low) as well as mono... I'm using kermit as a transfer protocol, and I'm not sure if it's retrying correctly when I get transmission errors... I've tried the XMODEM.EXE program (for the VAX), but have only had limited success with it. It seems to work for some files, and not others. I've disabled flow control on the terminal server... _John_ (So much software to try, so little time) ------------------------------ Date: 10 Jul 91 23:32:19 GMT From: munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!uqcspe!cs.uq.oz.au!warwick@uunet.uu.net (Warwick Allison) Subject: skates.lzh at terminator To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In <5522@ryn.mro4.dec.com> miskinis@aidev.enet.dec.com (John Miskinis) writes: >ANYWAY, I placed the files in A:/skates/jmw as documented, but keep >getting a mysterious "error #052, press any key"... Sounds like a braindeadness error (from, say, STOS?) are you using colour? Warwick. (Then again, STrabble crashes in low rez - oops) -- _-_|\ warwick@cs.uq.oz.au / * <-- Computer Science Department, \_.-._/ University of Queensland, v Brisbane, AUSTRALIA. ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jul 91 08:09:03 GMT From: tardis.computer-science.edinburgh.ac.uk!ford@ucbvax.berkeley.edu Subject: software QDOS emulators on the ST? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu From what I've heard, the only ST QL emulator so far (unless Tony Tebby's managed to get his QDOS compatable OS on the market) is the hardware/software emulator from some german company, and I don't even know if that exists any more. (The last QL World I got was March last year). I hope that helps. Sorry I couldn't help you further (us QL owners have to stick together). Stephen Usher Addresses:- Janet:- ucacmsu@uk.ac.ucl or ford@uk.ac.ed.cs.tardis Internet:- ucacmsu@ucl.ac.uk or ford@tardis.cs.ed.ac.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jul 91 09:49:14 BST From: Dave Wade Subject: STE paddle ports - electrical spec To: info-atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Has any one got any information about the electrical charactaristics of the analoge inputs of the STE. Any information at all would be appreciated. +------------------------------------------------------------+ | VM Sysprogs do it virtually all of the time !!!!! | | Reply To:- | | Janet:- DAVEW@UK.CO.SSS.D | | Bitnet:-DAVEW@D.SSS.CO.UK (Also most places outside UK) | +------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 8 Jul 91 09:25:00 GMT From: noao!ncar!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!smurf.sub.o rg!artcom0!hb.maus.de!bn.maus.de!Klaus_Guhr@arizona.edu (Klaus Guhr) Subject: What's the best database f To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Tt>By the way, I believe it was written by the Adimens programming team. Yes, it's true. The authors are Dieter and Juergen Geiss. cu Klaus ------------------------------ Date: 8 Jul 91 08:15:00 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia .edu!ira.uka.de!smurf.sub.org!artcom0!hb.maus.de!m.maus.de!Martin_Gaeckler@ariz ona.edu (Martin Gaeckler) Subject: Who sells Turbo-C in the US To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Hello Jim, Turbo C for the Atari ST/TT is no longer supported by Borland. Borland gave up the Atari ST product. There will be a new version called >Pure C<. The Distributor is Application Systems in Heidelberg, Germany. Martin Gaeckler ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jul 91 07:22:48 GMT From: mcsun!unido!laura!tommy!klute@uunet.uu.net (Rainer Klute) Subject: Zoo 2.1 - first impressions To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I just installed the new zoo version 2.1 on my Sun SPARCstation. To get a first (non-representative) impression of its compression rate and speed I packed everything in the zoo installation directory (including objects and binaries) into a zoo archive using the new zoo and specifying the new option 'h' to get higher compression. Then I did the same with zoo 2.01, arc 5.21 and with that LHarc that identifies itself with "LHarc for UNIX V1.02 Copyright(C) 1989 Y.Tagawa, special Amiga option by S. Becker". Here are the results: Archiver: Comp. rate: Comp. time: ------------------------------------- zoo 2.1 61% 28.6s zoo 2.01 49% 13.0s arc 5.21 48% 17.1s lharc 41.5% 35.4s I think with zoo 2.1 we have a very decent archiving system that not only gives a great flexibility and a lot of possibility no other archiver offers, but now also has the advantage of a very good compression rate. It rules out LHarc in that respect - at least regarding my non-representative data. Therefore here goes a big "thank you" to Rahul Dhesi! However, there are two subjects that could be improved: Although the old zoo 2.01 is available for the Atari ST, I couldn't find ST specific support in the Makefile. The ST version lets you do something like 'zoo a// archive.zoo *'. The '//' in conjunction with the 'a' adds not only simple files but also directory trees to the archive. I would like to see that as a general feature in zoo. -- Dipl.-Inform. Rainer Klute klute@irb.informatik.uni-dortmund.de Univ. Dortmund, IRB klute@unido.uucp, klute@unido.bitnet Postfach 500500 |)|/ Tel.: +49 231 755-4663 D-4600 Dortmund 50 |\|\ Fax : +49 231 755-2386 ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ******************************