Info-Atari16 Digest Sun, 7 Jul 91 Volume 91 : Issue 378 Today's Topics: 1.44M formatting.. Alchimie Jr users out there? Amiga/Atari Amiga is better then [sic] what??? Amiga is better then what??? ATARI.ENG Atari Developer support disconnected? Atari vs Amiga GCC 1.39 -g Problems GNU emacs, can't get it to work... Anyone know how? losing atari binaries More on what Atari does have (MIDI) (2 msgs) Need hertz switcher.. Portfolio in Terminator 2? (2 msgs) ProCopy Atari ST Version 1.8 what Atari DOES have Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU. Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored. If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please contact the redistributor, not us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 5 Jul 91 22:23:36 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!samsung!umich!ox.com!math.fu-berlin.de!mailgzr z!opal!unido!fauern!faui43.informatik.uni-erlangen.de!lsmichae@arizona.edu (Lars Michael) Subject: 1.44M formatting.. To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu yonder@netcom.COM (Christopher Russell) writes: >I was thinking about trying to hookup this 1.44M drive that I have >here. I have a few files that explain how it is done (basically >get 16Mhz to the WD1772). Anyways, I was going to try it out, but >I don't have a 1.44M formatting program. Is one available at >atari.archive, or could somebody mail me one? Thanks... >-- >Christopher L. Russell (yonderboy) Phone: (408)378-9078 Campbell,CA >yonder@netcom.COM or clr40@amail.amdahl.com or chrisr@leland.stanford.edu Hi Chris, Yeah, you're right. Just look at a.a for CLI10U.LZH, the powerful command line interpreter of Oliver Scholz. There you have an build- in format command with HD option. This is not the only reason why you should have it. Just look into the (german, sorry 8-( ) docs for detail. BTW: english docs will be avaiable soon 8-) Have fun, --- Lars +----------------------------------------+----------------------------------+ | lsmichae@faui43.uni-erlangen.de | | | | | | Lars Michael | | | | "Down with ATARI, | | Graduate Student of Computer Science | / | \ Long live the ST !" | | at University of Erlangen/Germany | / | \ | +----------------------------------------+----------------------------------| | Bones: "Damn it, Kirk, I'm a doctor, not a very good actor." | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jul 91 00:03:58 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!psuvax1! psuvm!jjl101@arizona.edu (J.J. Lehett) Subject: Alchimie Jr users out there? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Well, I have just begun to look into this sequencer and would like to get in touch with anyone else who uses this sequencer. If so, drop me a line! ************************************************************************* * J.J. * Internet: JJL101@PSUVM.PSU.EDU * Penn State * * * * Center for * * John Lehett * Bitnet: JJL101@PSUVM * Academic Computing * ************************************************************************* * Atari ST's!, Puzzles, Cryptos, Games, Diplomacy, Synths + Midi * ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jul 91 05:27:21 GMT From: ads.com!pdel@ames.arpa (Peter Delevoryas) Subject: Amiga/Atari To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu >From: ykidron@isis.cs.du.edu (Yaron kidron) >Subject: Amiga/Atari >Message-ID: <1991Jul5.203125.3818@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> >Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account) >Reply-To: ykidron@isis.cs.du.edu (Yaron kidron) >Peter, it seems that you have to learn a lot too. Just want to let people know that I'm not the Peter referred to here. Let me earn my own flames, thanks. Peter D. -- login name: L1-A In real life: Peter Delevoryas In any other life: a cheap imitation ------------------------------ Date: 6 Jul 91 23:38:03 GMT From: pa.dec.com!bacchus!mwm@decwrl.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) Meyer) Subject: Amiga is better then [sic] what??? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <678509203.0@therip.FidoNet> Rod.Fulk@f24.n228.z1.FidoNet.Org (Rod Fulk) writes: B> That's what many people say, until they try Amiga multitasking. I have seen people use the multi tasking.. The main reason for multitasking is that on the amiga many programs just have general functions due to the fact that many other programs can do these functions well. On the ST MOST of the programs that are out now [...] Anyhow, MOST of the ST programs out now have many ways of getting some of the important features done in a "multi tasking" environment. In other words, the authors of utility programs in a monotasking environment must go out of their way to provide functions that the system (or other utilities) provides in a multitasking environment, just because you can't access the external functions without exiting the current task. This is a lose for two reasons. First, you've got all those utility writers re-inventing wheels. This is largely wasted time; they should be making their utilities better instead. Second, chances are pretty good that all those re-invented wheels won't look the same, so the users of those utilities will have to learn multiple different ways of acheiving the same task. This is a waste of the users time; they should be putting their computers to work, not learning N different ways to format a disk (or whatever). On the amiga multitasking is very useful for the current software do to generalizatins.. You're missing the forest because of the trees. _Any_ software designed for _any_ multitasking system will be "generalized" in this way. They always have. After all, if the user can suspend/detach/iconify/shelloutof your program and do X no matter what X is, you don't need to worry about doing anything but what your program does. (Games don't count since most dont multi task even on the amiga.. I am talking games like falcon etc.. Some you CAN multi task but you really do not wanna do so unless your running a fast machine) Well, most of the games I can buy multitask - partly because I tend not to buy games if they don't. Of course, I also find arcade games boring, and stick to strategy games. There, the multitasking is a great help - I can take notes in the editor, grab a calculator to crunch on some probabilities, etc. But why? It already can do all I need for it That's the bottom line on buying a computer. If that's true, you bought a right computer for you, whether it's a 4MHz z80 running CP/M, or a NeXT box... > Hmm, seems as IBM and Apple are joining forces in future technology >(according to the paper). So while we're bickering between Atari and >COmmodore, it's two biggest threats are going to combine forces - ought >to be REAL interesting to see what the future holds in store for BOTH >the ST and Amiga... > > Robert Anisko > rjast1@unix.cis.pitt.edu Hardly, they are not "combining forces" they are merely exchanging technology. and that still has 6 months till the contracts are signed. i think you'll see things change if/when the contracts are signed, Ego's are big at both IBM and Apple. --------------------------------------------------------------------------. | UUCP: {amdahl!tcnet, crash}!orbit!pnet51!chucks | "I know he's come back | | ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!chucks@nosc.mil | from the dead, but do | | INET: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org | you really think he's | |-------------------------------------------------| moved back in?" | | Amiga programmer at large, employment options | Lou Diamond Philips in | | welcome, inquire within. | "The First Power". | `--------------------------------------------------------------------------' ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jul 91 04:32:47 GMT From: cadence!cadence.com!bammi@uunet.uu.net (Jwahar R. Bammi) Subject: GCC 1.39 -g Problems To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu -- bang: uunet!cadence!bammi jwahar r. bammi domain: bammi@cadence.com GEnie: J.Bammi CIS: 71515,155 In article <21313@k2.maus.de> Frank_Celler@k2.maus.de (Frank Celler) writes: > > When trying to compile a file with the "-gg" option, the assembler > reports an unkown option "G" and starts reading the (compiler) symbolfile > as input file. When trying to compile with "-g", I get a bogon-alert please get newer versions of utilities (especially gcc-ld.ttp and sym-ld.ttp) from atari.archive (Patchlevel 17 or better, the current Patchlevel is 21). these versions should never ever give you the dreaded "bogon alert" message. while you are there also pick up a new version of gdb (gdb v2.6 Patchlevel 12). "gcc -g" (note NOT -gg) works just fine now. also, this version of gdb is very usable on the atari now. if you ever get "illegal character" errors from gas (v1.38) when compiling with `-g', then you need a newer version of gcc. I had posted the required Patch for gcc-1.39. gcc-1.40 has these fixes already incorporated, so if you see the error from gas, please grab the new gcc v1.40 fom A.A. cheers, -- -- bang: uunet!cadence!bammi jwahar r. bammi domain: bammi@cadence.com GEnie: J.Bammi CIS: 71515,155 ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jul 91 02:57:00 GMT From: deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!aidev.enet.dec.com!m iskinis@decwrl.dec.com (John Miskinis) Subject: GNU emacs, can't get it to work... Anyone know how? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I grabbed all 29 parts of the GNU emacs archive. I can't get it to work. It says in the "read_me" file that the termcap library is used, and that a sample file is included. I didn't see one! I logged onto Genie, pulled the TERMCAP archive, and it has a TERMCAP file in it. It seems to define "st52" and "st52l" (50 lines). I tried setting the TERM environmental to st52, but it still complains that st52 is not powerful enough to run emacs, and it lacks the ability to move the cursor. It hasn't been a fun Saturday! If anyone knows how to get this working I'd love some help! Thanks! _John_ ------------------------------ Date: 6 Jul 91 21:53:55 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!apple!portal!cup.portal.com!Bob_BobR_Retelle@a rizona.edu Subject: losing atari binaries To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Jim Omura writes: ... > Anyway, thank you all for losing the 'binaries' groups for >us. I'm sure the local Amiga and Mac users are also thrilled. Umm... how is it that your administrator killed comp.binaries.st because of heavy traffic in comp.sys.atari..? Why not kill the one generating the traffic? I'm afraid I don't see the connection... Or did you mean he killed ALL .atari groups..? BobR ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jul 91 00:33:12 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!think.com!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!world!a zog@arizona.edu (azog-thoth) Subject: More on what Atari does have (MIDI) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Ive posted before, on a comparision between VAX/VMS and the Atari and the Amiga, and the fact is, its a religious issue, when it comes down to stuff like, computers, editors, operating systems, etc. I still love VMS, and also like Unix... however, I digress from my original intent. The Atari has built-in MIDI ports. Big deal, you say? Not when ones purpose of buying a computer is for MIDI recording. What are you gonna buy, a machine that has the capibility built in, or one where you have to buy another extrenal box? Regardless of preformance, etc, I would think the hypothetical person in this case would buy the machine with the MIDI built in... Some musicians are computer dunces, and dont want to futz with any extra needed stuff... I didnt originally buy my Atari ST for the MIDI, but that was one of the reasons why. I knew eventually I would start doing MIDI stuff. Here is a fair comparision that the average person would look at when buying a computer. I am using used equipment as an example, and its just an _example_! Here is my setup: Atari 520STfm computer, with colour SC1224 monitor, brought used for $250.00. External SF314 3.5" DSDD drive, used, for $100. Now thats a total of $350 for the base machine. Ive no RAM expansion or hard drive (will get one eventually). Add a few dollars maybe for MIDI cables (I got mine in the keyboard box when I bought it new) Here is an example of an Amiga, used equipment These prices are guesses, from what Ive seen in misc.forsale.computers, and local ads. Amiga 500 computer with 1084 monitor, $500. External floppy drive, $100. MIDI interface, $100. The total is $700. Whats wrong with this picture? I got built in MIDI for $350. The Amiga would cost maybe $700. If you wanted MIDI, and didnt really know about computers (face it, there isnt a lot of people who really care about DMA channels, and the like. Of course, the more RAM, the bigger the patch, whatever in memory. However the ST and the 500 both have 512k base...) Its easier to add memory to a 500, I would imagine. And also, Atari doesnt make the STfm anymore. The STe, yes? You could probab get a 520STe for $500, easy. And the Mega 2 STe costs maybe $1000, with more memory. And the Amiga 2000, you could get used for maybe $8000, but you still need to add a MIDI interface... Dont bother sending me mail saying that the Amiga is better at MIDI than the Atari. Maybe it is, I dont know. All I know is that I got everything I need in one package... (exepct for software, which cost me about $100. A package called MIDISoft Studio, by Passport. There are better ones, but require better machines, like a 1040 or above). Just my humble opinion +---------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+ | Billy D'Augustine | Close your eyes, what do you see? Dreams in | | azog@world.std.com | rhyme with reality. - Fates Warning | +---------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jul 91 06:09:44 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!ringer!tgimon@arizona.edu (Thomas Gimon) Subject: More on what Atari does have (MIDI) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu A few facts: 1) The Amiga suffers from timing problems which keep it from being considered for most professional MIDI work. This is due to the Amiga having only one hardware timer. This timer can not be reliably used by application software since the OS can reset or adjust this timer **AT ANY TIME AND WITHOUT WARNING**. MIDI software for the Amiga has to rely on software timing; which is not suitable for professional work. 2) The ST has 4 hardware timers. Two of them are permanently reserved for OS use, one of them is reserved for OS use for RS-232 timing, and one is free for use by application software. The timer which is used for RS-232 timing may be used by application software needing a second timer, provided that you wont be needing RS-232. 3) The ST is the only micro-computer which can perform bit accurate SMPTE synchronization. This is because the ST can perform the sync in hardware. SMPTE allows composers to synchronize their work to video tape, film, or multi-track tape. The standard rates are (in frames per second) 30, 29.97, 25 and 24. The best that other micro-computers can do is 30 fps. This leads to the need for time interpolation between the SMPTE frame rate and the music's natural beat tempo. This can only be done using software to perform the interpolation, which can be as bad as relying on a software timer. Since the ST can sync to every bit in the SMPTE code, it is synchronizing with the time code 2400 times every second. The ST still has to do a hint of time interpolation, but the algorithm needed is much simpler and much faster. I once owned a Commodore 64; and I *knew* that when I upgraded, I was going to get an Amiga. However, when I was commissioned to do my first film score, I took a serious look at many different computer systems, and how well they would serve at the hub of a home MIDI studio. The Amiga was, of course, the first system I looked at; but I was dissapointed when I found out that the hardware was inadequate, and the software for MIDI was almost non-existant (pro-software). I eventually purchased an ST, SMPTE-Track v3.0 sequencing software from Hybrid Arts, Inc. (I now use v6.0), and I have *never* regreted my decision! I have been using this setup for the last three years and don't feel the least bit compelled to change to another system! --Tom Gimon INET: tgimon@ringer.cs.utsa.edu ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jul 91 02:01:40 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!apple!portal!cup.portal.com!Bryan_Jones_Woodwo rth@arizona.edu Subject: Need hertz switcher.. To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Could at least one person uuencode and send me a 50 hz program ? I try to run the "acid2" demo on my Atari 1040STf but it gives me nine bombs. I assume that I need to switch the monitor to 50hz. If someone would fmail it to me I would be most cheerful. Seems Bart is broken and I can't get it from there (Hi Weiner! I saw the mail.shucks) Bryan_Jones_Woodworth@cup.portal.com ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jul 91 07:44:29 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!usc!jarthur!jarthur.claremont.edu@arizona.edu (Corey Liu) Subject: Portfolio in Terminator 2? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Anybody out there see "Terminator 2: Judgement Day" yet? Awesome flick! (IMHO) But that's not the point of my post. Correct me if I am wrong, but was that an Atari Portfolio making a cameo appearance in the film? Wow! An Atari machine in the likely summer movie box-office blockbuster! Did not look like Atari had a hand in the appearance though. I could not find any listing in the credits and it seemed the filmakers tried to avoid showing the product label (i.e. the Fuji). Am I incorrect? Any info on this? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "This must be the place I waited years to leave." - P.S.B. Corey Liu (__) cliu@jarthur.claremont.edu Harvey Mudd College |oo| cliu@jarthur.uucp Claremont, CA \/--Moo! cliu@jarthur.bitnet -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jul 91 12:53:36 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.w isc.edu!pikes!mercury.cair.du.edu!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!isis.cs.du.edu!jbunch@ari zona.edu (John Bunch) Subject: Portfolio in Terminator 2? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I saw credits for Atari Games, but not for Atari Computers... But it sure did look an awful lot like a portfolio... Coolness... John. -- John B Bunch * I don't want the world, I just want your 771 Madison Ave Apt.2e. * half.... -TMG Albany, NY 12208 * jbunch@isis.cs.du.edu * ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jul 91 09:13:57 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!munnari.oz.au!goanna!minyo s.xx.rmit.oz.au!t821431@arizona.edu (Richard Clarkson) Subject: ProCopy Atari ST Version 1.8 To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Is Procopy version 1.8 the latest version of ProCopy for the Atari-st? Is the Address listed below correct and has anyone recently had an update or confirmation of registration from them. (I have never heard anything since April 1990 when i bought the software package? Is this address correct? ProCo Products PO Box 665 Chepachet RI 02814 i T el: (401) 568 8459 ------------------------------ Date: 6 Jul 91 22:45:01 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!quest!orbit!pne t51!chucks@arizona.edu (Erik Funkenbusch) Subject: what Atari DOES have To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu lchd_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (----* Ho Ling Cherd *----) writes: >In article <5314@orbit.cts.com> chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Erik Funkenbusch) writes: >>CSULLOGG@CRL.AECL.CA writes: >>>I have an ST and a TT. Both of these can use something the Mac, the PC and >>>the Amiga cannot - the Atari SLM605 laser. For DTP, nothing can rival the >>>speed of output and the number of applications that make use of that speed >>>like Atari DTP packages. >> >> >>huh? you've obviosly never used a Mac with a LaserWriter IIntx. those >>puppies have an 030 in them. by the way, have you seen the LaserJet III's? >>they have variable resolutions. >> >Howv much does a LaserWriter IIntx cost? What kind of technology had Steve >Job chosen on his NeXT Laser printer? The NeXT uses a 400 dpi SCSI laser printer i believe. /s --------------------------------------------------------------------------. | UUCP: {amdahl!tcnet, crash}!orbit!pnet51!chucks | "I know he's come back | | ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!chucks@nosc.mil | from the dead, but do | | INET: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org | you really think he's | |-------------------------------------------------| moved back in?" | | Amiga programmer at large, employment options | Lou Diamond Philips in | | welcome, inquire within. | "The First Power". | `--------------------------------------------------------------------------' ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ******************************