Info-Atari16 Digest Thu, 4 Jul 91 Volume 91 : Issue 374 Today's Topics: A.A. Gnustuff, Sitrep. Amiga is better then what??? Atari vs Amiga Double Click programs Gnu-emacs under MiNT Lattice C Upgrade MEGA STE problems (Summarise) (2 msgs) Mega STe wanted PP2 trouble Problem w/ TeX 3.1 at atari.archive (was Re: getting TeX up and running on your ST) This week's program Tos 1.4 software TT monitor compatibility Unwanted Amiga Input UW what Atari DOES have Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU. Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored. If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please contact the redistributor, not us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 4 Jul 91 14:31:49 GMT From: otter.hpl.hp.com!hpltoad!ghiggins!gjh@hplabs.hp.com (Graham Higgins) Subject: A.A. Gnustuff, Sitrep. To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu New releases on A.A. Update11 received from jrb. Hence ... and initially ... On the stack for updating: lib, include, gdb (release!), util and gprof. Graham ====== ------------------------------------------------------------------ Graham Higgins | gjh%ghiggins@hpl.hp.co.uk Hewlett-Packard Labs | gjh%ghiggins@hplb.hpl.hp.com Filton Road, Stoke Gifford | gjh%hplb.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa Bristol, U.K. | ...!mcvax!ukc!hplb!gjh Tel: +44 272 799910 x24014 Fax: +44 272 790554 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Disclaimer: My opinions above are exactly that, mine and opinions. ------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: 4 Jul 91 11:45:01 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia .edu!src.honeywell.com!msi.umn.edu!cs.umn.edu!kksys!orbit!pnet51!chucks@arizona .edu (Erik Funkenbusch) Subject: Amiga is better then what??? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu mathew@mwowm.mantis.co.uk (Million Headed Monster) writes: >> since when does the STe have a graphics co-processor capable of >> running concurently with the CPU? > >Since it was launched? A Blitter is not a co-processor. Does the Atari blitter have 3 DMA inputs which can be combined in any of 256 minterms and output on a 4th DMA channel? is the Atari Blitter programmed by a custom graphics co-processor that runs it's own programs seperate from the cpu? > >> since when does the STe have Multi-tasking? > >Since I decided to run a multi-tasking OS on it? Well, so how great is this OS? is not only multi-tasking, but re-entrant too? does it allow for multi-threadable applications and shared data structures? Does it have ANY form of interprocess communication, much less a standard form? > >> > However there is a 24bit card available for $800 with a coprocessor of some >> > sort for really good graphics... >> >> just one? i can buy 3 or 4 24 bit graphics devices for the 500 for under >> $500.00. > >Wow! That's $125 each. Pretty good. But what do you want three or four >graphics cards for? Wouldn't that use up all the expansion slots? Don't be stupid. you know what i meant, as well as everyone else here. your using semantics to distract people from your inaccuracies. > >> > An Ste with tos 1.6 and blitter performs pretty well... >> >> *IF* any software uses that blitter. very little does. > >All ST software which uses the OS graphics routines will be speeded up by >the blitter. Many programs which *don't* use the OS have blitter support >as well, since ST blitters have been around since 1987. That uses the graphics routines. and how many don't? how many do? > >> > Compared to an Amiga 500 the amiga only has a slight edge over the Atari.. >> > (Note: for the price no other computer even comes close... ) >> >> Really? does the STe cost less than $500.00? > >I don't know about the US, but in the UK the STe is cheaper than the A500. Is that why the Amiga is selling more units there than Atari? they are more expensive? that's a Mac philosophy isn't it? are you comparing mail order ST prices to dealer Amiga prices? > >> I have a book that attempts to >> do the same thing on an Amiga and an ST, and they had to supply a whole bunch >> of routines that had to be written from scratch to match what they used in the >> Amiga's OS. > >What "same thing" were they trying to do? Implement an Amiga OS, perchance? No, actually it was a book from Compute Books called "3d Graphics programming in C" or some such, don't have it handy since it's in storage. No they weren't implementing the Amiga OS, they were implementing standard 3d drawing algoriths. > >> hmm are there any companies developing >> 16 bit audio boards? Not from the mail i've been getting. the only apparent contenders appear to be using 16 bit sampling keyboards. > >What do you mean "developing"? They're already on the market. > >> There are 2 of them. the Applied Engineering 1.56 meg High Density, and the >> Commodore 1.76 meg High Density. > >Can you read industry-standard 1.44MB floppy disks on those? Either Mac or >PC format? Yes, with the commodore drive. you see, it's impossible to get AT&T Unix System V r4 certification if you don't support 1.44 meg high density drives. no, the Applied Engineering drive is proprietary to them. > >> > Comparing an ST to an Amiga at purely CPU intensive things the Amiga can not >> > be compared very favorably. >> >> Oh really? and i suppose that there are numerous 020,030,and 040 boards >> available for the STe? > >I don't know about "numerous". At least one. At least one what? 020, 030, 040? i can buy an 040 board today that will toast a NeXT. > >Now go away and play in your little .advocacy newsgroup. > If you didn't keep spouting bunk i would. --------------------------------------------------------------------------. | UUCP: {amdahl!tcnet, crash}!orbit!pnet51!chucks | "I know he's come back | | ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!chucks@nosc.mil | from the dead, but do | | INET: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org | you really think he's | |-------------------------------------------------| moved back in?" | | Amiga programmer at large, employment options | Lou Diamond Philips in | | welcome, inquire within. | "The First Power". | `--------------------------------------------------------------------------' ------------------------------ Date: 4 Jul 91 11:05:06 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.ed u!src.honeywell.com!msi.umn.edu!cs.umn.edu!kksys!orbit!pnet51!chucks@arizona.ed u (Erik Funkenbusch) Subject: Atari vs Amiga To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu azog@world.std.com (azog-thoth) writes: >Anyways, my point is this: why point out all the good things about >the Amiga, when most of the people in comp.sys.atari.st dont care? I don't post things about the Amiga for my health. The only posts i've made are in defense to lies/misinformation that many of the ST users seem to post whenever they feel threatened. If ST people didn't spout these untruths, then i would have no need to correct them, therefor you wouldn't see any of my posts here. --------------------------------------------------------------------------. | UUCP: {amdahl!tcnet, crash}!orbit!pnet51!chucks | "I know he's come back | | ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!chucks@nosc.mil | from the dead, but do | | INET: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org | you really think he's | |-------------------------------------------------| moved back in?" | | Amiga programmer at large, employment options | Lou Diamond Philips in | | welcome, inquire within. | "The First Power". | `--------------------------------------------------------------------------' ------------------------------ Date: 4 Jul 91 18:04:57 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.ed u!rjast1@arizona.edu (Robert J Anisko) Subject: Double Click programs To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I was trying to think of some useful utilities that Double Click could possibly implement. What I personally could use (and am wondering who else too) is a generic keyboard changer - i.e. right now I have my mouse disconnected, and have to use the ALT-arrow keys to move the pointer. But it would be much easier just to hit the arrows by themselves. What I'm thinking of is a program to simply let you rearrange what keys do what - this could help people with different keyboards (German etc) where you could set up the keyboard as you like. Easiest way I can think of is as an AUTO program, with maybe a small config file, just denoting what keys will act as what other keys, and leaving everything else alone. I dunno if there is such a similar program out there, but it would come in very handy... Robert Anisko rjast1@unix.cis.pitt.edu ------------------------------ Date: 4 Jul 91 16:59:57 GMT From: mcsun!corton!laas!ralph@uunet.uu.net (Ralph P. Sobek) Subject: Gnu-emacs under MiNT To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Jul3.115654@geog.ubc.ca> peter@geog.ubc.ca (Peter Jackson) writes: | >From: erlingh@idt.unit.no (Erling Henanger) | >Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st | >Subject: Re: MiNT/MGR questions | >Date: 5 May 91 19:17:01 GMT | > | >just nicely. I can fork shell commands, I can suspend emacs, it's all | there except one thing : | >I haven't been able to "dumpfix" xemacs, (Make a final dumped emacs) so | I have to use | >temacs -l loadup.el, whitch is no big deal if you have a TT, but on an | ST.... I do not see why the above configuaration should be more difficult than the original port of GNU emacs to the ST. From the latter I have learned that it is not easy to `dumpfix' ordinary xemacs. I suggest to Erling Henanger to save 2 emacs images from say the gulam shell: save one, then do a recursive call of gulam and then save the second. Then dumpfix should work, or so I would think. This advice was sent to me by Edgar Roeder at a time (quite some time ago) when he was more talkative on the net. -- Ralph P. Sobek Disclaimer: The above ruminations are my own. ralph@laas.fr Addresses are ordered by importance. ralph@laas.uucp, or ...!uunet!laas!ralph If all else fails, try: sobek@eclair.Berkeley.EDU Phone: (+33-)61-33-62-66 FAX-1: (+33-)61-33-64-55 FAX-2: (+33-)61-55-35-77 =============================================================================== Got a Mega 4 ST. Wishing it was a Mega STe! :-| Do I *really* want a TT? ; ------------------------------ Date: 4 Jul 91 15:11:56 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!torsqnt!lsuc!jimomura@ar izona.edu (Jim Omura) Subject: Lattice C Upgrade To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu This is a matter I think will interest anyone who plans to use a C compiler. I sent my disks down to Goldleaf on June 21, and I received my update today (July 4). This is exceptionally fast! You should keep in mind that we're talking about mail crossing international borders twice (Canada to US and then US to Canada). I would guess that they re-recorded the floppies and had the disks on the way back to me on the very same day or at the longest, within 24 hours of receiving them. I should point out that I sent a Money Order, so there would not be any reason to delay because of cheque clearing, but even still I'm accustomed to having delays for updates far longer. -- Jim Omura, 2A King George's Drive, Toronto, (416) 652-3880 lsuc!jimomura Byte Information eXchange: jimomura ------------------------------ Date: 4 Jul 91 17:45:55 GMT From: IFI.UIO.NO!larserio@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (LarsErikOsterud) Subject: MEGA STE problems (Summarise) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu No no - The problem in Degas IS the faulty chip !!!!!! After I changed my chip I never have trouble with Degas !!!!! try showing some Spectrum512 pictures (in 8 Mhz without cache). they also gets messed up with the faulty chip (and a lot of MEGA STE's have this chip even though Atari won't admit it yet :-) Try listening to the DMA sound (machines with this fault also have "static" on the DMA sound) Lars-Erik / ABK-BBS +47 2132659 / ____ ______ ________________________ Osterud / larserio@ifi.uio.no / /___ / The norwegian ST __________/ ______________________/ ____/ / Klubben, user association ------------------------------ Date: 4 Jul 91 17:46:49 GMT From: IFI.UIO.NO!larserio@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (LarsErikOsterud) Subject: MEGA STE problems (Summarise) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu The last weeks several people having the same trouble with their new MEGA STE has asked me how we fixed mine, and I hope this file can help you fix it. It's really the best machine Atari has made so it would be terrible not to have it in perfect condition :-) Errors on DMA-sound and video on MEGA STE - HOW WE FIXED IT ! """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Here's a summary of what we found at service in Norway. First - the errors on both machines we discovered were: - Static/noise on DMA sound and MIXed standard ST sound. - Sync-problems when using Spectrum512 pictures (vertical bars). - Vertical flickering bars on monochrome (most at 8 MHz). - Right edge of monochrome screen "flips" over to left edge when changing screen adress/resolution in mono-mode. We tried to find a chip that could be the cause of all these problems and found a big VLSI chip partly hidden under the right edge of the VME-card holder. It's chip U502 on my MEGA STE and is called GSTSHIFTER on the print-layout. After looking at the print-layout on both MEGA STE and standard STE we found the same chip on standard STE, a combined sound/video chip but with a totally different part-number. Anyway, we removed the original MEGA STE chip (made in 1990) and replaced in with the STE chip (from 1989) and all the problems were gone. If you want to "steal" a chip from a standard STE it's chip U401 inside the STE (still GSTSHIFTER). Disclaimer: Even though this solved the problems for us it might not work for all MEGA STE's and you do this at your own risk (I still would like Atari Corp to give some official information on this. It's not "ONLY YOUR MACHINE" anymore. It's quite a few...) Lars-Erik / ABK-BBS +47 2132659 / ____ ______ ________________________ Osterud / larserio@ifi.uio.no / /___ / The norwegian ST __________/ ______________________/ ____/ / Klubben, user association ------------------------------ Date: 4 Jul 91 23:49:32 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!apple!portal!cup.portal.com!Azog-Thoth@arizo na.edu (William Thomas Daugustine) Subject: Mega STe wanted To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu What the title says, says it all :-) Looking for a Mega-2 (or 4) STe system. Hopefully at a reasonable price! Ive got a colour monitor, so I just need the base unit... Cash buy, or Ive some some 'interesting' items for trade... Billy D'Augustine Azog-Thoth@cup.portal.com ------------------------------ Date: 4 Jul 91 20:26:25 GMT From: IFI.UIO.NO!larserio@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (LarsErikOsterud) Subject: PP2 trouble To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Personal Pascal 2 trouble... """""""""""""""""""""""""""" I have a small problem with my Personal Pascal compiler. When the compiler has been run several times (10-20 with TOS 1.4 but only once or twice on 2.05) GEM crashes the next time I start a GEM program. This is very annoying when I work with a new Pascal program: edit - compile - crash, reboot - edit - compile - crash etc Does anyone know what's the matter ???? The only thing I found was that the compiler does NOT call appl_exit when the compile was successful (could this cause GEM to crash the next time appl_init is called). Could this be fixed with a patch program, or could someone fix the compiler so it calls appel_exit before it quits (I'll pay for the job !!) If someone has the soulution please tell me (this is so important to me that I'll pay quite a bit for it if it fixes the problem :-) Lars-Erik / ABK-BBS +47 2132659 / ____ ______ ________________________ Osterud / larserio@ifi.uio.no / /___ / The norwegian ST __________/ ______________________/ ____/ / Klubben, user association ------------------------------ Date: 4 Jul 91 16:51:58 GMT From: mcsun!corton!laas!ralph@uunet.uu.net (Ralph P. Sobek) Subject: Problem w/ TeX 3.1 at atari.archive (was Re: getting TeX up and running on your ST) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu First of all, it is true that with the new TeX 3.1, undump would probably not run on a 1040 since the undumped file is approx. 800 Kb!! (as David Paschall-Zimbel stated). The older Tex 2.9, I was able to undump on my old 1040 ST and it produced something a lot smaller. [That's for information only.] A related question: has anyone ported BigTeX to the ST? I use the above undumped LaTeX and it blows up since I exhaust TeX's pool!! Now to the problem that prompted this posting: it seems that TeX and BibTeX under the TeX 3.1 directory at atari.archive use incompatible TEXINPUTS environment variables. For TeX/LaTeX, concerning my application, I need the following: setenv TEXINPUTS '.\acm;.;e:\tex\inputs\local;e:\tex\inputs' But unfortunately BibTeX requires this to be translated to emacs' style: setenv TEXINPUTS './acm:.:/dev/E/tex/inputs/local:/dev/E/tex/inputs' I would appreciate BibTeX being re-uploaded to a.a if it would use the more std. (this is only an opinion!) TeX/LaTeX style of paths. If it would accept both, so much the better. -- Ralph P. Sobek Disclaimer: The above ruminations are my own. ralph@laas.fr Addresses are ordered by importance. ralph@laas.uucp, or ...!uunet!laas!ralph If all else fails, try: sobek@eclair.Berkeley.EDU Phone: (+33-)61-33-62-66 FAX-1: (+33-)61-33-64-55 FAX-2: (+33-)61-55-35-77 =============================================================================== Got a Mega 4 ST. Wishing it was a Mega STe! :-| Do I *really* want a TT? ; ------------------------------ Date: 4 Jul 91 22:03:48 GMT From: infonode!krzywdzi@uunet.uu.net (Andrew S Krzywdzinski) Subject: This week's program To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Jul2.225414.24475@menudo.uh.edu> uace0@menudo.uh.edu (ATARI Computer Enthusiasts) writes: >DC Homey will home the mouse cursor to the center of the screen. Just press >+++ at any time. > >- mike vederman / Double Click Software What's the purpose of this program ? Is hitting 4 keys at the same time so much easier than moving your mouse by 1 inch ? I'm in the fog. -andrew krzywdzinski ------------------------------ Date: 4 Jul 91 21:06:23 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!rpi!bu.edu!bucsf.bu.edu!selick@arizona.edu (Steven Selick) Subject: Tos 1.4 software To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I have a 1040 STE with tos 1.6, and I wanted to have an older version for tos on file just to look at. Is there a software version available? I could whip up a quick dumper program to put tos into separate files if necessary. Would that conflict with copywrites? Keep in mind, I have 1.6, and probably can't do anything with 1.4 anyway. later, Steve ------------------------------ Date: 4 Jul 91 20:24:05 GMT From: tardis.computer-science.edinburgh.ac.uk!ford@ucbvax.berkeley.edu Subject: TT monitor compatibility To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Could someone (probably someone with a TT) tell me what sorts of monitor the TT can drive? Can it drive the Atari SM124 monochrome monitor? Is the NEC 2A Dual-sync monitor suitable? Is the NEC 3D Multi-sync monitor suitable? What are the monitor connections like on the back? I ask these questions as it will depend on the answers as to when I buy a TT, ie will I have to wait till I have enough for just the TT, or do I have to wait till I've enough money to buy the Atari monitor as well. I'm sure many prospective TT owners would like these questions answered, so I suggest that answers be posted to the net. Stephen Usher Addresses:- Janet:- ucacmsu@uk.ac.ucl or ford@uk.ac.ed.cs.tardis Internet:- ucacmsu@ucl.ac.uk or ford@tardis.cs.ed.ac.uk The second of these addresses disappears on the 1st August. ------------------------------ Date: 4 Jul 91 11:05:08 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!caen!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!src.honeywell.co m!msi.umn.edu!cs.umn.edu!kksys!orbit!pnet51!chucks@arizona.edu (Erik Funkenbusch) Subject: Unwanted Amiga Input To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu ckb@athena.mit.edu (Christopher K. Brown) writes: >In article <5275@orbit.cts.com> chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Erik Funkenbusch) writes: >>[.............................] When in reality, it's just some nice Amiga >>people trying to prevent the spread of false information. [more garbage..] > > Wow, someone help this guy, he's about to drown in his own >bullshit. > > Yeah. Right. Nice Amiga People. Why would anyone with an Amiga >EVER read this newsgroup. It makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE. I don't even >know what the comp.sys.amiga.* newsgroups look like. They could come up >with spinning colors and talking clowns! I wouldn't know! And sure as >hell don't care. > > The Crusading Amigans, out to make the world safe for Commodore. > >(Please, I have nothing against Amiga users in general, just the ones >who say stuff like the above quote, and really believe it...........) > What in my post was garbage? It's the ST users that are getting violent, My post is entirely credible. My only pourpose of responses in this newsgroup is when i see blaring technical inacuracies ("The Amiga wastes memory", "The Atari OS is more complete..." etc..) if these were not present, i would not respond. and i *DO* read the Atari newsgroups because i like to keep up on other platforms, i read the mac groups as well. --------------------------------------------------------------------------. | UUCP: {amdahl!tcnet, crash}!orbit!pnet51!chucks | "I know he's come back | | ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!chucks@nosc.mil | from the dead, but do | | INET: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org | you really think he's | |-------------------------------------------------| moved back in?" | | Amiga programmer at large, employment options | Lou Diamond Philips in | | welcome, inquire within. | "The First Power". | `--------------------------------------------------------------------------' ------------------------------ Date: 3 Jul 91 07:34:14 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!thelake!steve@a rizona.edu (Steve Yelvington) Subject: UW To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu [jbunch@isis.cs.du.edu (John Bunch) writes ... ] > months ago.. Although I hate using it, cause I only have a color > monitor and it requires mono monitor only.. Anybody out there > thinking of porting it to color? Would be appreciated by a few people > I am sure.... It's been done. I played around with a color Unix Windows a year or so ago. I didn't find it very useful because the resolution of the color monitor is not quite good enough for comfortable viewing of the small fonts that are necessary to display full-size screens inside GEM windows. People with color systems might find a more workable solution in a program called Screens that runs on the Unix host. You can use any VT100 term program (I used Uniterm) and flip among virtual terminals with a hot key. I can't tell you where to find these items. It's been awhile since I had access to a Unix site, so I don't need them myself. ---- Steve Yelvington If mail fails, try steve%thelake@cs.umn.edu ... the Minnesota domain MX site jhereg.osa.com apparently has been having difficulties. ------------------------------ Date: 4 Jul 91 11:45:02 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia .edu!src.honeywell.com!msi.umn.edu!cs.umn.edu!kksys!orbit!pnet51!chucks@arizona .edu (Erik Funkenbusch) Subject: what Atari DOES have To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu CSULLOGG@CRL.AECL.CA writes: >I have an ST and a TT. Both of these can use something the Mac, the PC and >the Amiga cannot - the Atari SLM605 laser. For DTP, nothing can rival the >speed of output and the number of applications that make use of that speed >like Atari DTP packages. huh? you've obviosly never used a Mac with a LaserWriter IIntx. those puppies have an 030 in them. by the way, have you seen the LaserJet III's? they have variable resolutions. --------------------------------------------------------------------------. | UUCP: {amdahl!tcnet, crash}!orbit!pnet51!chucks | "I know he's come back | | ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!chucks@nosc.mil | from the dead, but do | | INET: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org | you really think he's | |-------------------------------------------------| moved back in?" | | Amiga programmer at large, employment options | Lou Diamond Philips in | | welcome, inquire within. | "The First Power". | `--------------------------------------------------------------------------' ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ******************************