Info-Atari16 Digest Wed, 3 Jul 91 Volume 91 : Issue 371 Today's Topics: DOUBLE Version 2.01 (takes 32K less RAM !!) GCC 1.39 -g Problems GCR wanted HELP Info-Atari16 Digest V91 #370 lharc woes (AGAIN, was Is musedt.lzh corrupted?) MINIX on an Atari TT? MultiGEM, survey of responses NeXT Publishing Partner (w/SG10) ST Software from British distributors Supra HD utilities This week's program What's a STE anyway? where to look for the latest gcc libs? Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU. Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored. If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please contact the redistributor, not us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 3 Jul 91 08:19:22 GMT From: mcsun!ukc!edcastle!hwcs!neil@uunet.uu.net (Neil Forsyth) Subject: DOUBLE Version 2.01 (takes 32K less RAM !!) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article larserio@ifi.uio.no writes: >Double Screen-Heigh emulator for STE, MEGA STE (and TT ??) VERSION 2 >... >Why does this program only work om STE and not on standard ST ???? >"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" >Both the display modes uses new hardware registers on the STE to >make the code small. Why not do things the way BIGSCREEN does and use normal ST hardware scrolling at a character height resolution. Then your program would benefit everyone. OK we can lose the interlace version for old ST's. >Lars-Erik 0sterud E-mail: larserio@ifi.uio.no (usenet) >Okriveien 39 Call me at: +47 2 13 15 71 (voice phone) >N-1349 Rykkinn or ABK-BBS: +47 2 13 26 59 (300-9600 bps) >Norway +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ! DISCLAIMER:Unless otherwise stated, the above comments are entirely my own ! ! ! ! Neil Forsyth JANET: neil@uk.ac.hw.cs ! ! Dept. of Computer Science ARPA: neil@cs.hw.ac.uk ! ! Heriot-Watt University UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!neil ! ! Edinburgh, Scotland, UK "That was never 5 minutes!" ! +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 3 Jul 91 12:14:39 GMT From: otter.hpl.hp.com!hpltoad!ghiggins!gjh@hplabs.hp.com (Graham Higgins) Subject: GCC 1.39 -g Problems To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu ++ I have got "gcc139b.lzh" containing the GNU assembler for ATARI-ST ++ version 1.38 from Uni Koeln and the GNU debugger "gdb" from A.A. I would advise against such "mix-n-match" setups. That's why I have been trying to create a "standard" ST GNU release on A.A. Here's an extract from A.A.'s file .... ++ Here is a heavily hacked gdb for atariST, based on the incredible work ++ of John Dunning of porting it to the ST. ++ ++ The big difference is that this version supports dbx_format symbols and ++ stabs, not the gnu format (ie: "gcc -g" and not "gcc -gg"). gnu has ++ essentially dropped support for the -gg format. Other than that, it is ++ still undergoing development, to make it as stable, and to bring it up ++ to the changes in the latest rev of gdb from FSF. It is quite usable, ++ and a lot of you have been waiting for "something" so i am sending it ++ out for you to play with. I will provide updates (hopefully in a timely ++ fashion :-). Claro? Graham ====== ------------------------------------------------------------------ Graham Higgins | gjh%ghiggins@hpl.hp.co.uk Hewlett-Packard Labs | gjh%ghiggins@hplb.hpl.hp.com Filton Road, Stoke Gifford | gjh%hplb.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa Bristol, U.K. | ...!mcvax!ukc!hplb!gjh Tel: +44 272 799910 x24014 Fax: +44 272 790554 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Disclaimer: My opinions above are exactly that, mine and opinions. ------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: 3 Jul 91 14:07:04 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!samsung!know!daemon@arizona.edu Subject: GCR wanted To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Anyone want to sell a GCR with Mac 128K ROMs? E-mail a message to me, FAX a note (613) 584-2852 or leave a message on my answering machine (613) 584-4825. ------------------------------ Date: 3 Jul 91 14:14:31 GMT From: exurchn1.ericsson.se!exucph@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (Chinh Pham) Subject: HELP To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Hello everyone, My name is Chinh. I am new to USENET as well as to the atari computer system. My friend brought me an atari st four years ago. Since then, I used it for maximum of 50 times. Now that I have free time, I want to learn more about this computer that my friend brought for me. I have quite a few questions to ask, but before I go crazy with them, I will ask only the essential ones. 1. I live in Dallas. Where can I get any help for my computer? 2. I have hard disk, color monitor, and an ST. What can I do with them (besides selling them)? 3. I heard so much good things about it. How can I use as it as a terminal to call into the IBM mainframe? In other words, what emualtion package should I purchase? 4. I would like to do some word processing (publishing) with my atari. What publishing programs are there available? What laser printer is best suited for the atari? 5. I read some of your notes about monitors. What is a good one (reasonablely priced) for publishing program? 6. Is the ST good, or should I dumped it for something new? 7. My friend wants to put up a BBS board. I don't want to buy PC for it, so can I use the atari instead? And where would I get such information about it? And is it hard to maintain, given that I am a novice at it? Besides those questions, I asked you persuade me that this gift my friend gave me is worthwhile - not just gag sitting on my desk collecting dusts. PLEASE HELP...... Chinh. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jul 91 08:28:06 CDT From: Mike Dorman Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V91 #370 To: Atari List The newest version of STeno and STalker are being distributed by GRIBNIF, the NeoDesk people. They're due for release next month--and should have all the cool features that people want. The new version of Flash is supposed to be some rewrite from an Australian developer, but it hasn't picked up a distributor, although a bunch of people are trying to pick it up... Mike. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- : Michael Alan Dorman : : : MDORMAN1@UA1VM.UA.EDU : Hobbies are things people do when they should be : : BIX: syssupport : sleeping. --M.A.D. : : GEnie: M.DORMAN2 : : : PostalNet: : : : Box 8068 : Stonehenge was built by two drunks with no : : Tuscaloosa, AL : witnesses. --P.S.McGhee : : 35486 : : ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 1 Jul 91 19:48:52 GMT From: cucstud!tfd!afp!gna!linn!Vincent.Pomey@uunet.uu.net (Vincent Pomey) Subject: lharc woes (AGAIN, was Is musedt.lzh corrupted?) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu >>files, worse on very small files), and has a built-in GEM interface. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >why? does this mean it won't port to unix et al? The ZIP file format is originating from PKZIP on PC (no source but a description of file format and algorithms used). STZip is written for, guess what, Atari ST !! It certainly won't port to unix (Modula-2 & 68000), but a portable UNZIP in C has been posted in comp.sources.misc a few months ago, and a portable ZIP will be posted in a few weeks (see Info-Zip@wsmr-simtel20.army.mil for infos, betas, flames etc). --- --==>> Linn <<==-- AtariST Paris Vincent.Pomey@linn.fidonet.org or tfd.com!afp!gna!linn!linn.fido!Vincent.Pomey ------------------------------ Date: 3 Jul 91 06:46:18 GMT From: waikato.ac.nz!comp.vuw.ac.nz!actrix!Alex.Valdez@decwrl.dec.com (Alex Valdez) Subject: MINIX on an Atari TT? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article mathew@mantis.co.uk writes: > Has anyone tried running ST MINIX on a TT? Does it work? Anyone know of > any plans for a TT MINIX? > > > mathew > -- > << baby mother hospital scissors creature judgement butcher engineer >> Last I heard, MINIX doesn't work on 68030s, (TT or Amiga 3000). -- ================================Alex Valdez============================= "Alas sais na naman, oras ng pagdidili-dili... Isaisip ang mabuti, ang masama'y iwaksi..." ------------------------------ Date: 3 Jul 91 17:58:39 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.ed u!bonnie.concordia.ca!daily-planet.concordia.ca!alcor.Concordia.CA!seldin@arizo na.edu ( JONATHAN SELDIN ) Subject: MultiGEM, survey of responses To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I have to apologize to everybody for taking so long to send this summary of the replies I received about MultiGEM. All the replies arrived during a two-day period. At first, I was waiting for more replies. Then, I was caught in a rush to meet a deadline. This is the cause of the delay. Here are the replies: seimet@rhrk.uni-kl.de wrote: I use MultiGEM since April and it seems to be pretty good. Unfortunately the ST-version (TT-version will be available soon) does not support the new desktop, i.e. you can't start programs by the function keys. >1. How good is it? Will it run, for example, dvist and unix >windows? Will it permit a background kermit transfer via unix >windows or uniterm? I have never tried but I don't think MultiGEM supports a background data transfer. You can run up to 6 applications (including accessories!) at the same time but this is no real multitasking. The programs in the background only get cpu time when the main application calls GEM using an evnt-call. So if this application is no GEM application or rarely makes AES calls the background programs won't get cpu time. >3. Does it run on a TT? If not, is there a version for the TT? MultiGEM runs on a TT, but as mentioned above at the moment it doesn't support the TT or MegaSTE desktop. The author recommends to run MultiGEM only in ST ram but that's not necessary. In my opinion there is no reason to sell two versions, one for the ST and one for the TT. Nevertheless there are plans to sell a special TT version for a higher price. If the problems with the new desktop are fixed (they have to be because these bugs are the same for TT and MegaSTE) MultiGEM should run on all machines. Hope you got some new information from this. Bye ******************************************************** * Uwe Seimet * * seimet@sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de * *------------------------------------------------------* * I hate this machine, I wish that they would sell it. * * It doesn't what I want but only what I tell it. * * (Programmer's lament) * ******************************************************** ------------------------------- avgroeni@praxis.cs.ruu.nl wrote: As far as I know (haven't seen it, but someone I know has) MultiGEM is just like GEM, but the AES shel_ primitives now support not only parallelism between one application and multiple accessories, but also to more than one allpication, where each application has a window of itself, containing the menu bar and sub-windows. (this is exactly the ways MSWindows works.) The GEM primitived are written in such a way that it does NOT matter whether the system allows multitasking. That is, an application that is written on a single tasker doesn't notice any difference, provided it's resolution dependent, etc. -- ________________________________________________________ Annius Groenink|undergraduate student Laan van Borgele 24|maths/computer science at the 7415 DJ Deventer|University of Utrecht, Holland. The Netherlands|[from Sep91 I'll be in Leeds, UK. AVGROENI@CS.RUU.NL|You can use the same EMAIL address.] ---------------------------------------------- rjast1@unix.cis.pitt.edu wrote: Ok, here's what I know about Multi-GEM, in talking to the company releasing it in the U.S: It comes from Germany (American company is translating it), is supposed to be able to multitalk GEM programs, not just TOS/TTP (every program multitasked works inside a GEM window). It uses the ST's ACC ports - so at least 6 programs can be running (dunno if DC Stuffer or similar programs can do more). Since it uses the ACC ports, it's supposed to allow you to run ACC's just like a PRG - just double click on it. It splits memory up such that the main program you have up gets priority, and others next priority. It looks promising - they didn't say about what it can't do however so that'll take trial and error. The company mentioned $99 price, though I've heard some places saying about $69 or so. Anyways, could you send me the address/phone number of the place you saw it advertised? Thanks... Robert Anisko rjast1@unix.cis.pitt.edu --------------------------------------------- Is anybody surprised that I waited awhile to see if I would get more replies? Jonathan P. Seldin Department of Mathematics seldin@alcor.concordia.ca Concordia University, Montreal seldin@vax2.concordia.ca -- Jonathan P. Seldin Department of Mathematics seldin@alcor.concordia.ca Concordia University, Montreal seldin@vax2.concordia.ca ------------------------------ Date: 3 Jul 91 08:05:31 GMT From: noao!asuvax!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!munnari.oz.au!uhccu x!uhunix1.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu!kiki@arizona.edu (Jack W. Wine) Subject: NeXT To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Jul1.172711.21104@doug.cae.wisc.edu> carter@engr.wisc.edu (Gregory Carter) writes: >... >Looks Like NeXT has got the phrase "Power without the price." Down to a >surface mount science. > It seems like systems will eventually be built from one chip; maybe one day, debating about which one is superior will be as commonplace as arguments over the better phone or refrigerator. Apple's redirection toward OS production seems to indicate that growth and profits are found in the software domain, but I'm not sure which companies will be dominant in the software/hardware arena. >... >Even if you where to argue that the current architecture targets a >specific HOME market, it STILL costs too much! > Since CD-I systems will probably become a popular fixture in home, school and business, it would be nice if Atari could become a development platform for them. As a peripheral, CD-I seems to cover both the audio/video niche markets. For audio, AM-quality sound or voice-quality play up to 18 hours. Impressive video capabilites that include Photo CD display (16 million colors), dynamic picture effects like dissolves, wipes, etc., full-screen full motion video with a MPEG card. In one system version, expansion ports will allow Ethernet, SCSI, memory boards, parallel port, multiple serial ports, etc. [This info is from a brochure and I'll post complete specs if there is interest]. >Atari missed the boat, they should have made an entirely NEW modular >machine. Soon as I get the money, my MEGA STE is going to sit and >either run MAC software or my BBS software. > Jim Miller, V.P. of R&D, said that a new series with expansion slots was under development, so they'll have the product, but will they have the price? Jack ------------------------------ Date: 2 Jul 91 00:20:42 GMT From: noao!asuvax!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!wciu!abode!scale@arizona.edu (Luis Outumuro) Subject: Publishing Partner (w/SG10) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Jul1.124741.16156@netcom.COM> yonder@netcom.COM (Christopher Russell) writes: >I have Publishing Partner (a vintage copy -- did they ever make an >upgrade?). Anyways, I wanna use it with my SG10. The readme files >says to set the printer to IBM mode and use the MX80 driver. I tried >this. I tried the FX80 driver. I tried the Gemini driver with the >SG10 in Star mode. It prints "something" out in any of these modes. >Unfortunately only the largest of letters seem to print out correctly. > >For example: on the example (tutorial) document the title "Publishing >Partner" prints out ok in all of the above meantioned modes. I think >the point size is about >all prints out very fragmented. > >It is an old version of the program that was sold to me with my ST. I >had kinda always told myself I would try it out "real soon now". It >looks to be a pretty good rudimentary page layout program. Is it >still used much? SoftLogik Corp. still around? > >-- >Christopher L. Russell (yonderboy) Phone: (408)378-9078 Campbell,CA >yonder@netcom.COM or clr40@amail.amdahl.com or chrisr@leland.stanford.edu Hi Christopher, If I remember correctly (boy, what a disclaimer!), the SG10 has both an IBM mode and an Epson mode; for you to use either the MX80 or the FX80 printer drivers, the SG10 will need to be in the Epson mode. Using the IBM mode on the SG10, you should use the IBM Proprinter driver (if there is one). Yes, Publishing Partner has been upgraded to PageStream (of which, the latest version (2.1) is about to be released any day now). Yes, Soft-Logik is still around (and doing well!); you can reach them at the following address to ask about upgrading: (Ooops! I cannot find the address, but here is the toll-free phone number) Soft-Logik Publishing Corporation 800/829-8608 Good luck Chris, bye.................... Luis ------------------------------ Date: 28 Jun 91 23:58:02 GMT From: cucstud!tfd!afp!gna!linn!Jan.Willekens@uunet.uu.net (Jan Willekens) Subject: ST Software from British distributors To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In a message of <24 Jun 91 04:20:23>, dddean@bluemoon.uucp (2:320/100.1) writes: d> over here. Also: Would there be any type of compatibility problems? d> I have heard that the programs over there will not run on our US d> machines. That depends. Lots of games use the VBL interrupt for their routines. The VBL interrupt is generated 50 (vertical blank rate of 50 Hz) or 60 (vertical blank rate of 60 Hz) times a second in color mode. (72 Hz in monochrome) And here is where the problem lies. The non-US machines use the NTSC standard of 60Hz, where the machines in Europe use the PAL standard of 50Hz. On a machine with a VBL rate of 50Hz, one can 'use' more CPU clock cycles per VBL than on 60Hz, because one VBL takes longer. Now if the routines executed in one VBL take up say 99% of all available CPU time, these routines cannot run in 60Hz, because there will not be enough CPU time. When this is the case, the game will crash. But if the routines take less time, so that there is enough CPU time in 60Hz, the game will run. The only effect will be that everything goes more quickly than in 50Hz. Greetings... - Jan - --- STabloid's Chief Editor... Prerelease out soon! Jan.Willekens@p12.f202.n281.z2.fidonet.org or tfd.com!afp!gna!linn!p12.f202.n281.z2.fido!Jan.Willekens ------------------------------ Date: 3 Jul 91 07:40:00 GMT From: CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU!I9853100@ucbvax.berkeley.edu Subject: Supra HD utilities To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Does anybody know what the latest version of the Supra HD utilities is? If so, what are the differences from version 2.62 and how can I get the latest version (yes, I do own a Supra drive)? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks, Doug Tarico I9853100@ccit.arizona.edu ------------------------------ Date: 3 Jul 91 03:37:40 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!lll-winken!iggy.GW. Vitalink.COM!widener!dsinc!unix.cis.pitt.edu!gvlf3.gvl.unisys.com!tredysvr!cell ar!darling@arizona.edu (Darling) Subject: This week's program To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu uace0@menudo.uh.edu (ATARI Computer Enthusiasts) writes: > Just thought I'd let everyone know that I will be on vacation for the rest of > the week, so I've posted this week's program to atari.archive.umich.edu. > > DC Homey will home the mouse cursor to the center of the screen. Just press > +++ at any time. > > - mike vederman / Double Click Software > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Double Click Me | Double Click Software | P.O. Box 741206 | Houston, Tx, 7727 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Voice: (713)977-6520 | DC DESKTOP | DC FORMATTER | DC UTILITIES | and others I'm a big fan of Double-Click Software. Every time I go to GEnie's Atari ST File Exchange section, I always look for Double-Click contributions right away; works from DC Desktop all the way down to F-Light are permanent installations on my system. But it appears that these programs are getting increasingly useless as time goes on. I mean, you've got to be kidding me; you're going to replace a slight wrist motion with a four-key combination? Why??? I don't mean this as an insult, but I get the impression that the committment to one new program per week is resulting in rushed jobs and a low tank of ideas. Guys, you're the greatest, and we won't be insulted if you want to cut back to one program per 2 or 3 weeks, so as to spend more time on each. ~ darling@cellar.UUCP \\\ Thomas Darling * record production * dance re-mixing uunet!cellar!darling \\\ Fact HQ Studio * The Cellar BBS:215/336-9503 * FACT v ------------------------------ Date: 1 Jul 91 14:25:30 GMT From: cucstud!tfd!afp!gna!linn!Jan.Willekens@uunet.uu.net (Jan Willekens) Subject: What's a STE anyway? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In a message of <24 Jun 91 19:46:49>, freds@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM (2:320/100.1) writes: f> What is the difference between the MEGA ST and the STE? There are two STE's, the 1040 STE and the Mega STE. The 1040STE looks like an ordinary 1040ST except for the two addidtional joystick/paddle/lightgun/lightpen ports at the left side and the two connectors for connecting the STE to you HIFI. Here follow some specs.: - TOS 1.06 or the newer 1.62. (which should be 1.062, actually) - OS contained in 256Kb ROMs. - Contains Blitter chip. - Color palette of 4096 colors. - Hardware support for horizontal and vertical scrolling. - Prepared for an external Genlock-interphase. - 8-bit stereo PCM-sound. Programmable sound generator. - 1 Mb RAM, expandable to 4Mb using SIMMs. The Mega STE looks like a TT, only it is grey and not white. - The Mega STE has all the facilities the 1040STE has, except for the extra joystick/etc. ports! (please explain, Atari...) - 16Mhz MC68000 CPU with 16 Kb cache. 8 Mhz/16 Mhz without cache/16 Mhz with cache can be set by the control panel. - Socket for the MC68881/82-16 Floating Point coprocessor. - 2Mb or 4Mb RAM (SIMMs) There are rumors about a 1Mb version, but they have not yet been comfirmed. Memory can be expanded by placing SIMMs on the motherboard or by using a VME adapter. - Hard Disk 3.5'' 48Mb 28ms. This is a SCSI hard disk, so the Mega STE has a host adapter. It has no external SCSI ports, only one ACSI port. - Real time clock like in the Mega ST. - 2 RS232 ports - 1 LAN 1Mbit/s port - Internal connector for VME-bus Rev. C. 1 - Internal Fan (2) for hard disk and motherboard - 'TT' desktop - A far better keyboard than the Mega ST's f> Can a MEGA ST be upgraded to the STE? What does Atari have f> to say on this subject? No way. The soundhardware is too different and the STE's have hardware scrolling capabilities which cannot be implemented onto a Mega ST. The Mega ST's ROMs aren't 1Mbit chips, the STE's are. The differences are just too large. f> I have tryed to sell the system, but I have had no real offers. I f> had buyers for the monitors, and one piece of software. I guess no one f> likes the old MEGAs. Yes, you are out of luck. Lots of people are selling whole systems including Mega ST's, hard disks, printers. etc. because they want to buy a Mega STE or TT. There are just too few people who want to buy 'older' systems. Greetings... - Jan - --- STabloid's Chief Editor... Prerelease out soon! Jan.Willekens@p12.f202.n281.z2.fidonet.org or tfd.com!afp!gna!linn!p12.f202.n281.z2.fido!Jan.Willekens ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jul 91 16:15 From: "Thomas Koenig" Subject: where to look for the latest gcc libs? To: Info-Atari16 Discussion Where is the place to look for the latest gcc libs? I tried ftp at dsrgsun.ces.cwru.edu, 129.22.16.2, but I only empty directories all the way. Thomas Koenig EARN/BITNET : UI0T@DKAUNI2.BITNET INTERNET : UI0T@IBM3090.RZ.UNI-KARLSRUHE.DE X.400 : S=UI0T;OU=IBM3090;OU=RZ;P=UNI-KARLSRUHE;A=DBP;C=DE ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ******************************