Info-Atari16 Digest Mon, 24 Jun 91 Volume 91 : Issue 349 Today's Topics: 1.44 HD drives Atari-to-Amiga Convert Info Source! (5 msgs) Info-Atari16 Digest V91 #345 Juvenile user war crap Program of the week Spectre GCR price ST Software from British distributors Sybex STe/TT systems book This week's program (2 msgs) Thomas Hill TOS ERROR #35: What is it? UUPC Program wanted What do I need to use gcc/g++ Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU. Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored. If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please contact the redistributor, not us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 24 Jun 91 08:39:03 GMT From: IFI.UIO.NO!larserio@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (LarsErikOsterud) Subject: 1.44 HD drives To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu High Density 1.44 MB disk on TT and MEGA STE """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" In the TT 3.05 and MEGA STE 2.05 TOS version there are in addition to "SINGLE SIDED" and "DOUBLE SIDED" a format option for "HIGH DENSITY" in the resource file in ROM. This is removed in the dialog box for format, but can be turned on my flipping over one of the DIP-switches inside the computer. And if you put a HD-drive inside a TT it actually works (we have testet it). The big question is - Is it safe to use HD drive on the TT with the standard Floppy Disc Controller, AND can I use this on my MEGA STE too, or should we wait for new controllers from Atari (will they arrive soon - come on Atari - what about some info?) Lars-Erik / ABK-BBS +47 2132659 / ____ ______ ________________________ Osterud / larserio@ifi.uio.no / /___ / The norwegian ST __________/ ______________________/ ____/ / Klubben, user association ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jun 91 00:57:49 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!wciu!abode!scale@arizona.edu (Luis Outumuro) Subject: Atari-to-Amiga Convert Info Source! To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Hi Thomas (Darling), Your comments to Thomas (Hill) hit the mark quite well... "Tom, I haven't read such a heap of bunk it a long time. If you're frustrated that your computer isn't being used in any professional environment, fine. But don't come over here and shovel propaganda and outright false statements in an effort to get others to join you in your malcontence. Grow up. A "my computer is better" rant under any other name smells equally bad, no matter how you may attempt to dress it up." A bit of humor..... "You noble soul! The self-sacrifice! In turn, I offer to help YOU smooth the conversion of your lips from their present location to my sweaty posterior. I do this as a service!" Where does he get those wonderful lines?! =~) Thanks for saying what many of the rest of us would not have bothered to say. Bye.......... Luis ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jun 91 03:19:03 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!caen!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!cunixf.cc.col umbia.edu!cunixb.cc.columbia.edu!es1@arizona.edu (Ethan Solomita) Subject: Atari-to-Amiga Convert Info Source! To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article darling@cellar.UUCP (Darling) writes: >ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill) writes: > >> On the other hand, Amiga sales are higher than ever. > >Bzzzt! Commodore just posted its worst figures in 4 years. > I had NO intention of getting into this thread. I thought I'd read it for the humor content. BUT, you are totally wrong, and that shouldn't stand. Commodore IS having its best quarters in a very long time. The Christmas quarter (from Oct. 1 -- Dec. 31, 1990) they had their 3rd largest sales EVER and earnings were tripled from the prior year quarter. The last quarter (Jan. 1 -- Mar. 31, 1991) was also well above the prior year quarter, with something like a 10% increase in sales and a large increase in earnings (primarily cause they were so bad the year before), something like $10 or $11 million. -- Ethan "...Know-Nothing-Bozo the Non-Wonder Dog, an animal so stupid that it had been sacked from one of Will's own commercials for being incapable of knowing which dog food it was supposed to prefer, despite the fact that the meat in all the other bowls had engine oil poured all over it." ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jun 91 04:55:13 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pi tt.edu!rjast1@arizona.edu (Robert J Anisko) Subject: Atari-to-Amiga Convert Info Source! To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Jun24.005749.777@abode.ttank.com> scale@abode.ttank.com (Luis Outumuro) writes: > > Hi Thomas (Darling), > Your comments to Thomas (Hill) hit the mark quite well... > >"Tom, I haven't read such a heap of bunk it a long time. If you're frustrated >that your computer isn't being used in any professional environment, fine. >But don't come over here and shovel propaganda and outright false statements >in an effort to get others to join you in your malcontence. Grow up. A "my >computer is better" rant under any other name smells equally bad, no matter >how you may attempt to dress it up." > > A bit of humor..... > >"You noble soul! The self-sacrifice! In turn, I offer to help YOU smooth the >conversion of your lips from their present location to my sweaty posterior. >I do this as a service!" > > Where does he get those wonderful lines?! =~) Thanks for saying what >many of the rest of us would not have bothered to say. Bye.......... > > Luis I'm just wondering what our dear friend over in Commie-land (Amiga, not USSR ) would feel if someone were to step into their message base and kindly show them how to convert over from Commodore to the Atari. While this is called a "friendly" thing, for one no one on here asked for this "help." If someone wants help, do it in PRIVATE. It remins me of something done in wartime and even during Desert Storm: drop tons of propoganda on the enemy telling them step by step how to surrender (many of the Iraqi soldiers who surrendered carried these "information slips"). While I admit it is a stretch comparing this to the war, the point is that the same strategy/technique is being employed. or in short: I didn't ask, I don't remember seeing ANY postings here about it, and thus we really ain't interested in your "help." So I kindly ask our noble friend to save his blessings for those who want and need it - in the Commodore section... end, fine, et al... Robert Anisko rjast1@unix.cis.pitt.edu ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jun 91 10:54:10 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!uupsi!sugar! peter@arizona.edu (Peter da Silva) Subject: Atari-to-Amiga Convert Info Source! To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article darling@cellar.UUCP (Darling) writes: > And unless future Amiga machines clean up the severe MIDI timing problems > they've got now, they never will be. Oh boy, this was a design problem in the first MIDI software on the Amiga, has nothing to do with anything Commodore is responsible for, and hasn't been a *real* problem for years. We've run heavy MIDI streams through multi- program pipes, the MIDI clock on the Amiga (using the CIA timers) never skipped a beat, and CPU usage sat at 9%... -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' . 'U` "Have you hugged your wolf today?" ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jun 91 11:04:08 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!uupsi!sugar! peter@arizona.edu (Peter da Silva) Subject: Atari-To-Amiga Convert Info Source! To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article scott@cs.odu.edu (Scott D. Yelich) writes: > Anyway, my ST does what I need a computer to do. Most people don't > have the money nor the need to get a super home computer. Well then, it's good that the Amiga 500 costs $500. > For years now I have had people ask me about which personal computer to > purchase. Amiga. I pushed the machine before I ever got one. I put off buying a personal computer for 6 years waiting for something like the Amiga to come out. There is still, 6 years later, *NO* other personal computer with an operating system that satisfies my *minimum* functionality requirements, unless you go out and buy a UNIX box. And at that it's one of the cheapest machines out there. > MY atari does what I need it to do. You're satisfied, but have you used a real computer? I've been there. I borrowed an IBM clone for a while, then an Atari ST. It's called shopping around. The productivity improvement from reliable, efficient, and responsive multitasking is amazing. There really is a basic, fundamental difference between the Amiga and the rest. Your arguments make good sense when comparing Ataris and Mac and IBMs, but there *is* something better. And *you* don't have to wait 6 years to find it, like I did. -- Peter da Silva. `-_-' . 'U` "Have you hugged your wolf today?" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jun 91 18:09:18 CDT From: Mike Dorman Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V91 #345 To: Atari List >Try this: Wrote your own version of `cat' and be sure that you open >the input files and the output file in binary mode! > >-bernd I have done just this, written a binary mode file splitter/concatenator, with a nice GEM front end (if you like such things, I know some don't). I will try to post it to atari.archive within the next two days. FWIW, I wrote it so I could transfer the GCC 1.40 sources from the PCs at work (with ftp access) to the ST at home. Mike. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- : Michael Alan Dorman : : : MDORMAN1@UA1VM.UA.EDU : Hobbies are things people do when they should be : : BIX: syssupport : sleeping. --M.A.D. : : GEnie: M.DORMAN2 : : : PostalNet: : : : Box 8068 : Stonehenge was built by two drunks with no : : Tuscaloosa, AL : witnesses. --P.S.McGhee : : 35486 : : ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jun 91 07:17:20 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!thelake!steve @arizona.edu (Steve Yelvington) Subject: Juvenile user war crap To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu [In article <9106231954.AA23332@cwns2.INS.CWRU.Edu>, aa399@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Len Stys) writes ... ] > From: steve@thelake.mn.org (Steve Yelvington) > Please keep the juvenile user war crap in Cleveland, and off Usenet. > It serves no purpose related to comp.sys.atari.st. > > This has nothing to do with Cleveland. You would have to be a juvenile user > to think it did. Sigh. I don't know why I bother. Maybe I should just unhook comp.sys.atari.st and rely on GEnie, where they pay people to spike ruggie user fight trash. You and the ill-mannered Amiga fanatic from Cleveland Freenet are engaging in a public pissing match, posting lists of messages from Freenet's Commodore forums and recycling ignorant, inflammatory, ill-intended messages. It is noise. It drives reasonable people of good will away from the newsgroup. It has no place here. If you think you're doing Atari owners or c.s.a.st readers a favor, you're mistaken. ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jun 91 01:14:39 GMT From: mcsun!unido!horga!nathan!ue@uunet.uu.net (Udo Erdelhoff) Subject: Program of the week To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Hi, could you *PLEASE* post your binaries into c.b.a.s and not here? Nothing against you personally or DC... /s/ -- Udo Erdelhoff smart: ue@nathan.ruhr.de Am Westheck 170 Fido: Udo Erdelhoff on 2:245/52.1 W-4600 Dortmund 12 (FRG) Maus: Udo Erdelhoff @ DO Please keep your replies short - I have to pay for recieving mail ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jun 91 08:26:01 GMT From: kawakami%ocf.berkeley.edu@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (John Kawakami) Subject: Spectre GCR price To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu SPECTRE GCR might be forsale I am thinking of selling my GCR and buying a "real mac"... What can I expect for the Spectre GCR with the latest disks (v 3.0) and the ROMS? Is $300 too much to ask? John Kawakami kawakami@ocf.berkeley.edu ucbvax!ocf.berkeley.edu!kawakami ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jun 91 04:20:23 GMT From: noao!ncar!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!dddean@arizona.edu (David D. Dean) Subject: ST Software from British distributors To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Hello: I have just recently started collecting 'ST ACTION', and was intrigued by the programs that are available from British distributors, and was wondering if anyone in the US has used any of them? I know that the prices will be higher than what is listed in the magazines, but I would love to get some of the programs over there that I cannot over here. Also: Would there be any type of compatibility problems? I have heard that the programs over there will not run on our US machines. Thanks for any info... In Advance! You can send any replies to: David D. Dean, President David D. Dean, Vice Chairman Explorer Post 891 Exploring Officer's Association AT&T Systems/Bell Labs Central Ohio Council dddean@bluemoon.uucp Columbus, OH 43227 **** Any opinions are that of the author, and NOT of AT&T **** ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jun 91 10:05:41 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.arc.nasa.gov!uhccux!uhunix1.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu!k iki@arizona.edu (Jack W. Wine) Subject: Sybex STe/TT systems book To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Has anyone in Germany purchased the new 1500 page Sybex book on the Atari STe/TT? The author is Reschke and the German edition ISBN is 388 745 8885. To order, contact: Sybex Verlag GmbH Vogelsanger Weg 111 D-4000 Duesseldorf 30 West Germany Phone: (49) 211 618020 FAX: (49) 211 6180227 If you have it, could you please elaborate on the contents? Also, I would like to know the price and if there is any indication that it will be trans- lated to English (or your willingness to do so!). Thanks, Jack ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jun 91 02:02:35 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!spool.mu.edu!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc. uq.oz.au!brolga!uqcspe!cs.uq.oz.au!warwick@arizona.edu (Warwick Allison) Subject: This week's program To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu >This week's program will copy a file that has a bad sector(s) somewhere in the >file. This archive includes docs and the program. Sounds useful. >100% assembly ~ Oh. In that case, I will not use it. Why does an IO program need to use assembly? I think the most required attribute for an IO program would be: Correctness (ie. Stuff-up-my-files-and-I'll-kill-you) While the least required attribute would be: Efficiency Since the program will spend 99% of it's time waiting for the disk anyway. Using the assembly instruction move.IO #"A:file","B:file" which, as you know, copies two files in one clock cycle, then waits for the disk to catch up, would only speed up the process by 1%. Don't get me wrong, I use assembly a lot. But only for speed critical routines that have obvious correctness (eg. Sprite works / Sprite doesn't work). Ciao, Warwick. -- _-_|\ warwick@cs.uq.oz.au / * <-- Computer Science Department, \_.-._/ University of Queensland, v Brisbane, AUSTRALIA. ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jun 91 01:14:39 GMT From: mcsun!unido!horga!nathan!ue@uunet.uu.net (Udo Erdelhoff) Subject: This week's program To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In <1991Jun22.003927.19972@menudo.uh.edu>, ATARI Computer Enthusiasts writes: >We have posted _all_ of them to comp.binaries, but alas, they have not gone >thru. We have decided to post them here, since we can apparently pump out >the programs faster than the moderator can review them... I don't know what's wrong in the staates, but all your programs in comp.bin were recieved here in Germany.. /s/ -- Udo Erdelhoff smart: ue@nathan.ruhr.de Am Westheck 170 Fido: Udo Erdelhoff on 2:245/52.1 W-4600 Dortmund 12 (FRG) Maus: Udo Erdelhoff @ DO Please keep your replies short - I have to pay for recieving mail ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jun 91 01:48:52 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pi tt.edu!gvlf3.gvl.unisys.com!tredysvr!cellar!revpk@arizona.edu (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano) Subject: Thomas Hill To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I don't post or read this echo very often-- most of the subjects are a little outside of my interests-- but I couldn't help but notice Thomas Hill's notes about the ST and Amiga. On local boards, I've grown very tired of the computer wars. Not just because it's a pretty senseless topic to argue about to begin with, but because the only way anyone is remotely justified in claiming superiority for his computer is if he BUILT and DESIGNED the damn thing himself. But 99.9% of us can lay claim to having the cash, credit cards, or wealthy parents that enable us to make a purchase-- at BEST. And, because I'm an open-minded sort, I don't bust on other peoples' purchases; for one thing, we don't argue over what brand of CD players we buy, and another, different strokes for different folks. Now, Thomas Hill's endless touting of the Amiga struck me as more than a little strange. Not because some of his facts might be wrong, or because he was presuming to know things about the ST marketplace that we didn't. But think about this; Thomas Hill goes out of his way to bust on ST users, and wants to convince us to use Amigas. Granted, they're nice machines-- my roommate just bought a 3000-- but why is Thomas Hill so messianic about them? I can understand, halfway, if Thomas had found Jesus or had submitted to the will of Allah, and wanted us to do the same. But why is Thomas so wrapped up in what computers we own? Is he an Amiga salesperson? A Commodore marketing manager? Why, exactly, is he so emotionally committed to making sure that we own HIS kind of machine? Does owning an ST constitute a moral affront to him? Issues of STs and Amigas aside, I think it's pretty clear that Thomas has some problems. Not even the do-or-die Commodore 64 fans I know-- mainly children with few other interests to hold their allegiances-- get as worked up as THomas does. I can think of a dozen better causes for Thomas to worry about-- say, supporting the Electronic Freedom Foundation, or better, using his fables Amiga to crank out letters on behalf of Amnesty International. In short: what sort of deranged, socially-deprived noodnik would give a tinker's dam about what computer anyone else uses-- and would actively campaign to sell merchandise that he has no immediate financial stake in? Heck, I've seen more rational stuff coming out of Jesus freaks. ====================================================================== Brian Siano, aka [ "Mr. A. Hitler, the old Nazi thing, says [ Mickey's silly. Imagine that! Well, Mickey is Rev. Philosopher-King [ going to save Mr. A. Hitler from drowning or [ something some day. Just wait and see if he revpk@cellar.UUCP [ doesn't. Then won't Mr. A. Hitler be ashamed!" [ -- Walt Disney, 1933. ====================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jun 91 04:13:37 GMT From: noao!ncar!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!dddean@arizona.edu (David D. Dean) Subject: TOS ERROR #35: What is it? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Hello: A while ago, I went to use my FLASH program to call the local boards like I always do, but this time; I got a TOS ERROR #35 message and couldn't use this program. Frustrated, I returned to the store I bought this program from, and they said I'd have to send it to the company. So I did... I am now using the VT52 emulator that comes with the USA Laguage disk. I am sure that when I ask this, some people will no doubt wonder too: Wbat does the TOS ERROR #35 mean? I looked up the error number, but found it no where in any of the manuals. Thanks in advance for any replies. You can send any replies to: David D. Dean, President David D. Dean, Vice Chairman Explorer Post 891 Exploring Officer's Association AT&T Systems/Bell Labs Central Ohio Council dddean@bluemoon.uucp Columbus, OH 43227 **** Any opinions are that of the author, and NOT of AT&T **** ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jun 91 02:35:27 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!think.com!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!ira.uka .de!math.fu-berlin.de!fub!tmpmbx!lime.in-berlin.de!techno@arizona.edu (Techno) Subject: UUPC Program wanted To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Try Rodney's UUCP modules (called Mercury). Techno -- | techno@zelator.in-berlin.de ||| Please do not e-mail from outside Germany ! | | techno@lime.in-berlin.de / | \ Hardcore ST user ! ====================== | | Nothing that's real is ever for free, you just have to pay for it sometime. | | (Al Stewart) | ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jun 91 10:50:00 GMT From: mcsun!hp4nl!star.cs.vu.nl!hvaalde@uunet.uu.net (Aalderen van Harold) Subject: What do I need to use gcc/g++ To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I want to install the gcc, g++ binaries on my atari but I am a bit confused what programs I need. When I look at the gnustuff at a.a I will find archives with names in it that cannot be used in a Atari with TOS file system (to long, to many points in it) So could anyone tell me how to setup my system so I can use the gnustuff and what files to download from a.a? I have a 1040STf with TOS 1.0, 1 Mb and enough diskspace or a Mega 4 with TOS 1.4 and enough diskspace I do not want to have the sources just the binaries Harold van Aalderen (hvaalde@cs.vu.nl) P.S. does anyone now an other C++ compiler for the atari ST? ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ******************************