Info-Atari16 Digest Sat, 15 Jun 91 Volume 91 : Issue 335 Today's Topics: Atari ST hard drive wanted Erie PA show cancelled GCC 1.40 How many MBytes would _you_ recommend? Lattice C man w/ pipe Mega Mega? Mint ? Story of the demo folks TCB soundtracker / ST User?? Vortex Hard Disk Drive question Weekly Posting of New Stuff Z-RAM made my drive go nuts! WHY!!?? UPDATE. Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU. Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored. If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please contact the redistributor, not us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 15 Jun 91 00:06:07 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!apple!portal!cup.portal.com!Azog-Thot h@arizona.edu (William Thomas Daugustine) Subject: Atari ST hard drive wanted To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Well, the title says it all. Im looking for a hard drive for my 520ST. Working with just two 720k diskette drives dont cut it :-) Im open for trades, I have a lot of neato and unique stuff. Or an out right cash buy... Thanx Billy D'Augustine Azog-Thoth@cup.portal.com ------------------------------ Date: 15 Jun 91 16:33:40 GMT From: noao!asuvax!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!think.com!mintaka!spdcc!dirtydog .ima.isc.com!ispd-newsserver!kodak!cygnus!nelson@arizona.edu (Bruce D. Nelson) Subject: Erie PA show cancelled To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu The Spectrum Group of Erie just informed me that their Atari show scheduled for June 29-30 in Erie, PA has been cancelled due to lack of interest on the part of vendors, developers, and Atari. -- Bruce Nelson | Phone: (716) 726-7890 Rochester Distributed Computer Services | Internet: nelson@kodak.com Eastman Kodak Company | Rochester, NY 14653-5221 | ------------------------------ Date: 15 Jun 91 12:13:51 GMT From: otter.hpl.hp.com!hpltoad!polly!gjh@hplabs.hp.com (Graham Higgins) Subject: GCC 1.40 To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu ++ I noticed the sources and diffs for the ST version of GCC1.40 in the ++ new gnustuff directory at A.A. (Thanks to Graham for the neat re-org!!) Hold hard there boyah! Not finished yet. The sources currently available on A.A. are only positioned for testing, not yet testED. Testing will require compilation. The only thing I've managed to compile so far are the main GNU libraries gnulib16/32 and iio16/32 and their gdb versions. ++ Before I go to the trouble to try and compile it, has someone else already ++ got the ST version of GCC1.40 compiled up, and could they please post it ++ to A.A?? I will post a set of 1.40 binaries which I got from a UK BBS. No, I haven't been able to cross-compile 1.40 yet, so I can't vouch for these binaries, except to say that I used them to compile the library sources on my ST. Cheers, Graham ====== ------------------------------------------------------------------ Graham Higgins | gjh%ghiggins@hpl.hp.co.uk Hewlett-Packard Labs | gjh%ghiggins@hplb.hpl.hp.com Filton Road, Stoke Gifford | gjh%hplb.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa Bristol, U.K. | ...!mcvax!ukc!hplb!gjh Tel: +44 272 799910 x24014 Fax: +44 272 790554 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Disclaimer: My opinions above are exactly that, mine and opinions. ------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: 15 Jun 91 21:42:00 GMT From: math.fu-berlin.de!tmpmbx!lime.in-berlin.de!techno@uunet.uu.net (Techno) Subject: How many MBytes would _you_ recommend? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu There's no ersatz for memory except more memory. Techno -- | techno@zelator.in-berlin.de ||| Please do not e-mail from outside Germany ! | | techno@lime.in-berlin.de / | \ Hardcore ST user ! ====================== | | Nothing that's real is ever for free, you just have to pay for it sometime. | | (Al Stewart) | ------------------------------ Date: 14 Jun 91 22:46:55 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!mips!atha!lsuc!jimomura@arizona.edu (Jim Omura) Subject: Lattice C To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Jun13.024614.7493@garfield.cs.mun.ca> david10@garfield.cs.mun.ca (David Churchill) writes: >I just purchased a copy of Lattice C (v. 3.03.02 (c) 1986 . . . hey, for $20 >CAN used, I can't complain :-)), and I have a few questions (my apologies if >all of these questions were answered recently on the net) : > >1) What are the major differences (improvements) to the compiler in its latest >version (v. 5.01?)? Well, first, you don't even have the "latest" revision of version 3. In my version 5.06.01 manual it refers to conversion of programs from version 3.04. So it would seem that they had at least 1 more major revision even within the 3.nn series since yours was last upgraded. Now as for version 5.nn, well the biggest reasons to upgrade are: 1. Support for ANSI code. The documentation is a tad unclear whether it support 100% of ANSI or just "almost", but it looks complete to me. Unfortunately this has made it somewhat difficult for me to decide what state I'm going to leave some of my source code since I use a few "old K&R C" compilers such as "Small-C" for CP/M work and Microware 6809 C for OS-9 work and Sozobon C. I think I'll convert the most Atari specific commercial code I'm doing to Lattice/ANSI C and leave the rest mainly in "old C". But if you plan on a carreer as a programmer, I suggest that you have complete ANSI C compatibility as soon as possible. 2. Support for newer POSIX calls. This is an independent matter from ANSI C, but it's the same reasoning. It's "the future" and if you're going that way, you want the upgrade. 3. Better support of TOS/GEM. This I'll have to guess a bit at. Some of the stuff looks the same to me as the stuff covered in the Abacus books. Other things look different and possibly new. I think the VDI has been extended a bit in TOS 1.4. Certainly the STE specific calls like the support for the sound output daemon are new. Beyond that I'll have to speculate that there are probably fewer bugs than what you have and I expect a bunch of new compiler options. I don't know if your compiler creates code other than 68000 specific code. This compiler has switches for '020 and '030 as well as support for 68881 and 68882 math co-processors. They also claim a better set of libraries generally due to re-coding in assembly language, so most programs should turn out smaller and faster than before. >2) Is Metacomo still in business? If not, who is carrying the line? I've been in contact with Goldleaf in the US (415) 257-3510. In fact, I'm supposed to call them back Monday to discuss upgrading my 5.06.01 to 5.06.02. They haven't received the upgrade packages from HiSoft. It may be relevant that HiSoft in England seems to be in control of the situation overall now. I don't know if Metacomo still exists, but it probably isn't relevant. You'd better call Goldleaf though and see what arrangements you can amke for upgrades. You may have a problem. I called Goldleaf *before* I bought my Lattice just to make sure there wouldn't be a problem. But I'm at least starting with a HiSoft release. >3) Is an upgrade path available, and is it worth it? (at the moment, I'm just >writing small, uncomplicated programs for use on a UNIX platform. Since I can't >always get through to the system via modem, why not use the ST?) -- Jim Omura, 2A King George's Drive, Toronto, (416) 652-3880 lsuc!jimomura Byte Information eXchange: jimomura ------------------------------ Date: 15 Jun 91 07:21:40 GMT From: hpcc05!hpdmd48!ritchie@hplabs.hp.com (David Ritchie) Subject: man w/ pipe To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu >In article <3188@odin.cs.hw.ac.uk>, neil@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Forsyth) writes: >> Well this Bob Dobbs character (actually 4) is just another example of Atari >> wastage ... Atari should have put something *useful* in there in >> the first place. > >Darnded right! Atari really screwed up. Why didn't they use the IBM character >set like a REAL computer would? Come to think of it, why isn't the Atari ST >an IBM compatible computer? Gosh, it makes me so mad to think of the large >number of *useful* things that could have been done with the ST if only it'd >been an IBM compatible. The real question is why IBM doesn't have Bob in its character set. Things are getting prettty pink around here, IMHO. -- Dave Ritchie ritchie@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com ------------------------------ Date: 15 Jun 91 03:48:46 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!think.com!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!bloom-pica yune.mit.edu!bloom-beacon!eru!hagbard!sunic!isgate!krafla!adamd@arizona.edu (Adam David) Subject: Mega Mega? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In <1991Jun13.120105.18786@informatik.uni-erlangen.de> csbrod@immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Claus Brod) writes: >There is a commercial solution distributed by Richter Computer in >Germany. With their expansion cards, you can pump up memory volume to >12 MB. Does anyone know how well this handles DMA and video? I'm not prepared to buy one just to find out. How many other commercial / DIY homebrew memory expansion systems are there? Gadgets seem to have a clear value-for-money winner. Keep it up Dave & friends! -- Adam David. (adamd@rhi.hi.is) ------------------------------ Date: 14 Jun 91 06:41:54 GMT From: esseye!jdbbs!wybbs!therip!FredMail@uunet.uu.net (Rod Fulk) Subject: Mint ? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I have Mint and Manager available on my bbs... HSt Freq able.. 1:228/24.0 I downloaded them from GEnie and havent looked at the stuff yet.. Not sure of their names.. Otherwise call and leave me mail and I will upgrade your access real quick like. (You can download ONE program on your first call.. Manager is like a 500k file or so though...) * Origin: The R.I.P. (616)235-2313 [HST] (1:228/24) ------------------------------ Date: 15 Jun 91 16:31:59 GMT From: europa.asd.contel.com!gatech!prism!mailer.cc.fsu.edu!nu!boyd@uunet.uu.net (Mickey Boyd) Subject: Story of the demo folks To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <2865725@MVB.SAIC.COM>, steveg@cseic.saic.com (Stephen Harold Goldstein) writes: > >Now can anyone tell me just who these guys are that wrote things like >the WHATTHEHECK and Life's a bitch demos? The demos are pretty neat >but I'm concerned about references to 'ripping' sounds from commercial >games and 'copy parties' in their 'scroll texts'. Are these demos nothing >more than cut and paste jobs of stolen code and artwork? Well, most of these guys are/were pirates, more specifically crackers. A cracker is one who removes copy protection from a piece of software, so it can be more easily distributed via BBS's. After the program is "cracked", these folks sometimes put a little graphic demo at the beginning, stating which "cracking group" did the work, and perhaps a scrolling message (usually containing hellos to other cracking groups). All the "scroller" type demos originated from this. As they got more and more complex (remember that they had to be able to coexist with another program, so they are generally small), and as competition increased they got more and more impressive (in terms of graphics/sound). Some common techniques were to "rip" sounds from games or other demos, and sometimes graphics backgrounds or sprites. At some point, a cracking group organized and produced a full disk of these demoes (I believe the first was the Union demo, still one of the best). Many others followed, including the ones you have mentioned. They usually consist of offerings from many "groups", collected together under some sort of common menu program. The theft of music/graphics from copyrighted stuff is going down, although using stuff found in other demos is still common (it is usually of better quality). Now, interestingly enough, many "cracking" groups have become "demo" groups. They have given up cracking and pirating in favor of writing demos. One reason for this might be increased legal awareness developing in europe of software pirating. For whatever reason, some of these folks are now being employed to write games and sound/graphic tools (for example, the TCB Soundtracker, named best music program in europe, was written by The Care Bears, a former cracking group). Also, some "demo" groups have formed that have no history of pirating. At most european computer shows, there is a "latest and greatest" demo competition, with software companies looking on. There are also some other interesting categories, like "best demo written in 24 hours". I have been seeing less "scroller only" type entries, and more snazzy stuff, like real time 3D (although just about all the demoes have some sort of scrolling message). Please note that most of these folks are REALLY young (like 14, for chrissake!). Kind of humbling, huh? Anyway, almost all coding is done exclusively in assembly (I have seen reference to the TURBOASS assembler, which has been discussed recently here on c.s.a.st). Thus, I would say that these demos are much more than just "cut-and-paste" jobs, but they do have a definite ancestory to software cracking. With the advent of "demo only" type groups, offers to share source code and have "demo parties" are becoming more common. One groups usually hosts a party, inviting members from other groups. Zillions of Cokes and Doritos later, a new demo disk emerges. At some point in the future, I am going to try to attend one (and pretend I broke my two typing fingers in a bench vise :-). I am very curious as to just how they do all that stuff, and I hope to come back with some disks of source. As someone pointed out on the net, most of these demos work at a very low level. Thus, you should not expect to see standard GEM windows, or expect them to work on all computers made by Atari. What you should expect is some mind- blowing graphics and sound which push your particular machine to the limit (I can't wait until some TT specific ones come out, that should be impressive). By the way, almost all of the "full disk" type demos contain at least one hidden demo (the one for the Union demo is incredible, and was the root for the TCB Soundtracker). Usually one of the scrolltexts will tell you how to invoke it. -- ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- Mickey R. Boyd | "Kirk to Enterprise. All clear FSU Computer Science | down here. Beam down Technical Support Group | yeoman Rand and a six-pack . ." email: boyd@fsucs.cs.fsu.edu | ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 15 Jun 91 15:40:58 GMT From: mcsun!ukc!icdoc!usenet@uunet.uu.net (Alan David Messer) Subject: TCB soundtracker / ST User?? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Hi all, I've just been down to the local newsagent,and I see that the latest ST User has a ,so called,FULL version of the TCB tracker! Can this be so?? What I would like to know is how full a version is the full version?? I have the demo version of the tracker,is this ST user version just a fuller version??? Does it support MIDI?? Does it come with playback routines??? In short has anyone brought the latest ST User and can tell us what comes on the cover disk in terms of the TCB tracker?? Enquiring minds want to know... Bye for now, Alan. -- +----------------------------+------------------------------------------------+ | Alan Messer. | Janet: adm2@doc.ic.ac.uk | | Dept. of Computing, | Internet: adm2%doc.ic.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk | | Imperial College, | BITNET: adm2%doc.ic.ac.uk@ukacrl | ------------------------------ Date: 15 Jun 91 13:21:21 GMT From: math.fu-berlin.de!unido!fauern!forwiss.uni-passau.de!eva.fmi.uni-passau.de!iws9 060@uunet.uu.net (Thorsten Guenther) Subject: Vortex Hard Disk Drive question To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Hi there! I have some questions to all of you in Netland: How good is the Software that comes with Vortex' Datajet drives? It is specially written for them and I do not know if it is comparable to ICD Tools or SCSI Tools. In a German mag (PD Journal) I have read that using SCSI Tools on Vortex drives may cause loss of data. Is this true? If so, then why does this happen? Would you advise me to buy a new controller instead of going on with the one built in? Hope there is someone who knows. Thorsten Guenther ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - If they tell the truth when they say that Rock Music was created by Satan - - himself, I'd rather try not to get to heaven. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 15 Jun 91 08:39:48 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!think.com!yale.edu!ox.com!umich!termina tor!usenet@arizona.edu (Atari Archive Robot) Subject: Weekly Posting of New Stuff To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu drwxrwxr-x jon 2048 Jun 8 16:25 ./magazines/znet drwxrwxr-x jon 2048 Jun 8 16:40 ./applications drwxrwxr-x weiner 512 Jun 8 16:39 ./applications/math drwxrwxr-x weiner 512 Jun 8 16:39 ./applications/finance drwxr-xr-x weiner 512 Jun 8 16:36 ./applications/databases drwxrwxr-x weiner 512 Jun 8 16:32 ./applications/spreadsheets drwxrwxr-x weiner 512 Jun 8 16:38 ./applications/persutls drwxrwxr-x weiner 512 Jun 8 16:33 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./gnustuff/tos/intar/patchPL12u3.tar -rw-rw-rw- gray 51200 Jun 13 05:57 ./gnustuff/tos/intar/pdmakePL0.tar -rw-rw-rw- gray 194560 Jun 13 05:58 ./gnustuff/tos/intar/pmlPL11.tar -rw-rw-rw- gray 399360 Jun 13 06:01 ./gnustuff/tos/intar/utilPL18.tar drwxr-xr-x gray 512 Jun 13 08:39 ./gnustuff/tos/gcc/src drwxr-xr-x gray 3072 Jun 13 08:35 ./gnustuff/tos/gcc/src/gcc140 drwxr-xr-x gray 512 Jun 13 08:31 ./gnustuff/tos/gcc/src/gcc140/config -rw-r--r-- gray 1462422 Jun 13 08:36 ./gnustuff/tos/gcc/src/gcc140.tar.Z drwxr-xr-x gray 3584 Jun 13 08:11 ./gnustuff/tos/gcc/build drwxr-xr-x gray 3072 Jun 13 08:11 ./gnustuff/tos/gcc/build/config ------------------------------ Date: 14 Jun 91 06:32:57 GMT From: esseye!jdbbs!wybbs!therip!FredMail@uunet.uu.net (Rod Fulk) Subject: Z-RAM made my drive go nuts! WHY!!?? UPDATE. To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Tell the guy to check the voltages comming off the power supply.. I bet you will find it isnt 5volts anymore... When 4 meg of memory is added to a 1040 you HAVE to remove atleast one bank of the mother board memory.. Or atleast cut off the power going to it.. Best electronics seems to sell a better powersupply too for the 1040's.. Although I am pretty sure if you have them disable the ram on the mother board your problems will go away... (remember the 1040's were made to run ONLY 1 meg of memory and support the ports. Not much over head above that... 520's are a little better since they are really 1040's with half as much memory and half as much drain from the memory..) The 1meg drams are only half as power hungry as the 256k drams though... So if you take all one meg worth of chips out somehow then you will actually have as much power used as a 520... (stf in all cases of course.) * Origin: The R.I.P. 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