Info-Atari16 Digest Mon, 10 Jun 91 Volume 91 : Issue 325 Today's Topics: A.A. : arc602.ttp or unarc.ttp question G++ at A.A. from ftp.thp.koeln.de GCC -g and G++ bogon alert!?! (2 msgs) GNU Emacs Pure Lisp Storage space Gripes about UW (was Re: X for the ST?) Latest ver. of Prospero-C & Fortran Mint ? More than 4 Meg ?? New version of BASH 1.05 for MiNT path to Gadgets (2 msgs) Re: Man w/ pipe Reading TOS/DOS diskette on the SparcStation System 7 on the GCR (from dsmall) TT ram revisited X for the ST? (Unix Windows) Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU. Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored. If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please contact the redistributor, not us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 10 Jun 91 09:57:16 GMT From: otter.hpl.hp.com!hpltoad!ghiggins!gjh@hplabs.hp.com (Graham Higgins) Subject: A.A. : To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I am trying to clean up the gnustuff directory on A.A. I will try and create an A.A.-hosted GCC cros-compiler, so that A.A. has binaries for the most recent patches. The most notable problem is that A.A. does not have the ST-specific diffs to create the ST port of GCC 1.39 --- we have only binaries. Other (example) problems are: util.zoo --- has nm.c from the Sozobon distribution and a spurious Patchlevel (14, should be either 13 or 15). include.zoo --- does not include math.h nor stab.def Here are the current Patchlevels of the central ST versions of GNU sources at A.A. curses.zoo - PathLevel: 7 (sic) flex.zoo - no patchlevel included gemlib.zoo - PathLevel: 15 (sic) include.zoo - PatchLevel: 62 libsrc.zoo - PathLevel: 62 (sic) pmlsrc.zoo - PathLevel: 8 (sic) util.zoo - PathLevel: 14 (sic) I'd be grateful for uploads of verifiable later versions of any of the above sources and also verifiable sources (diffs from FSF distribution) for GCC 1.39. Graham ====== ------------------------------------------------------------------ Graham Higgins | gjh%ghiggins@hpl.hp.co.uk Hewlett-Packard Labs | gjh%ghiggins@hplb.hpl.hp.com Filton Road, Stoke Gifford | gjh%hplb.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa Bristol, U.K. | ...!mcvax!ukc!hplb!gjh Tel: +44 272 799910 x24014 Fax: +44 272 790554 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Disclaimer: My opinions above are exactly that, mine and opinions. ------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jun 91 17:27:44 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!rex!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!thelake!steve@a rizona.edu (Steve Yelvington) Subject: arc602.ttp or unarc.ttp question To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu [In article <727@bigfoot.first.gmd.de>, ralph@prosun.first.gmd.de (Ralph Berg) writes ... ] > How can I tell arc602.ttp or unarc.ttp to store on > extraction the files into another directory as where > the archiver programms resides??? > > When I use unarc.ttp with "x c:\tmp\any.arc" the > extracted files will be stored where the unarc program > is called ?? I tried responding via email, but my friendly neighborhood Internet host said: 550 ralph@prosun.first.gmd.de... Host unknown Anyway, ARC and UNARC place extracted files into the *current* directory. If you are running from the GEM Desktop, it's likely that you have made unarc's or arc's directory the current directory by topping its window. Try topping the window where you want the objects to be placed, then hold down the SHIFT key and double-click on arc.ttp or unarc.ttp in a background window. That will instruct GEM to run the program without switching to its directory. You won't have this problem if you run your archiver from a command-line shell or special GEM shell. ---- Steve Yelvington, Marine on St. Croix, Minnesota, USA / steve@thelake.mn.org ------------------------------ Date: 10 Jun 91 09:46:36 GMT From: otter.hpl.hp.com!hpltoad!ghiggins!gjh@hplabs.hp.com (Graham Higgins) Subject: G++ at A.A. from ftp.thp.koeln.de To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu This archive has been withdrawn from A.A. following an adverse report which indicates that the archive's integrity has been compromised. G++ is case-sensitive to its support files, apparently the archive prog blithely switched them all to upper case. The lack of documentation, author identification and sources only add to the problem. BTW --- This seems to be another example promoting the argument for compressed tar files. Graham ====== ------------------------------------------------------------------ Graham Higgins | gjh%ghiggins@hpl.hp.co.uk Hewlett-Packard Labs | gjh%ghiggins@hplb.hpl.hp.com Filton Road, Stoke Gifford | gjh%hplb.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa Bristol, U.K. | ...!mcvax!ukc!hplb!gjh Tel: +44 272 799910 x24014 Fax: +44 272 790554 ------------------------------------------------------------------ Disclaimer: My opinions above are exactly that, mine and opinions. ------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: 10 Jun 91 12:04:04 GMT From: mcsun!unido!rzsun2.informatik.uni-hamburg.de!rospc1!hess@uunet.uu.net (Hauke Hess) Subject: GCC -g and G++ bogon alert!?! To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Hello, I have a problem with the gcc 1.39 and the g++ from the koeln ftp site. If I try to compile the following program with g++: #include int main(){ cout << "Hello World\n"; } All works niecly until the link run. Then the linker says: Bogon alert: wrote xxx Symbols, yyy expected. And the resulting file is not a TOS executable (TOS error 66: not an executable program). The same happens, when I compile a normal gcc program with the gdb option "-g". Then there is another number of wrote/expected symbols, but the resulting program again is not executable. Has anyone encountered this problem and perhaps already solved it? Hauke Hess / University Hamburg (so write in german, if you like) ------------------------------ Date: 10 Jun 91 17:21:19 GMT From: noao!asuvax!ukma!psuvax1!psuvm!dearn!dmswwu1c!zvd007@arizona.edu (U.Kuehn) Subject: GCC -g and G++ bogon alert!?! To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article , hess@rospc1.informatik.uni-hamburg.de (Hauke Hess) says: >If I try to compile the following program with g++: >#include >int main(){ cout << "Hello World\n"; } > >All works niecly until the link run. Then the linker says: Bogon alert: wrote >xxx Symbols, yyy expected. And the resulting file is not a TOS executable >(TOS error 66: not an executable program). > >The same happens, when I compile a normal gcc program with the gdb option >"-g". The Problem is , that the linker does not handle the DRI-compatible symboltable in the correct way, so try using the -s option to advice the linker to strip off the symboltable. Bye the way, I've got the stuff from koeln, too, and I dont have that problem; maybe you are not using the linker provided in the package in the cs-directory at the site. U.Kuehn ------------------------------ Date: 10 Jun 91 13:31:32 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu !uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!jsh44765@arizona.edu (Jonathan S Hofmann) Subject: GNU Emacs Pure Lisp Storage space To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I just ftp'd GNU Emacs for my Mega 2, unpacked it, and tried to run it. It ran the .el files through keydefs.el, and then said 'Pure lisp storage exhausted'. I do not have the sources, nor do I have the 10 meg free for the sources. Could someone please tell me what's going wrong? I'm trying to run Emacs from Gulam. Thanx! ========================================================================= Scott Hofmann | "It's all devestatingly true, hofmann@sumter.cso.uiuc.edu | except the parts that are lies." jsh@anlhep.hep.anl.gov | - Douglas Adams ========================================================================= ------------------------------ Date: 10 Jun 91 16:48:18 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!usc!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!menudo.uh.edu !rcte2p@arizona.edu (Paul S. Sears) Subject: Gripes about UW (was Re: X for the ST?) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu perstoro@netmbx.UUCP (Wilhelm Schaefer) presents in article <2392@netmbx.UUCP> >limsico@earthquake.Berkeley.EDU (Carl Limsico) writes: > [Question on the availability of X for the ST deleted..] >There is! >I have seen it on the c-bit this year. >It was a st with x-win connected to a unix-tt. >But it was not working too good. :-( >As far as I seen it.... > >On the other hand there is a programm called UW (unix windows). > >I think it was designed for the mac first, but it has been >ported to the st by someone. I have used UW many times but there is one thing about it that really _BOTHERS_ me. The mouse cursor is always displayed, so that it flickers and slows down the screen. Now, I wish someone would hack the ST side of the code to turn off the mouse cursor until the mouse is moved or one of the mous buttons are pressed (like Uniterm does). This would significantly speed up the screen too... and it would be much less annoying... I don't have a C compiler to even thing about it.... > >After typing *UW* in the first window the host starts Unix-Windows and >from now on you can use, I think about 6, windows. >So I am able to work at different suns at the same time...... >Thats fun :-) >(So my st could "have" 100 MIP's ore more... ) > >so long > > -- --- good old perstoro --- -- -- * Paul Sears * Technology *** |"The greater an individual's power * The University of Houston *** | over others, the greater the evil that * RCTE2P@Jetson.uh.edu * * * | might possibly originate with him." * RCTE2P@menudo.uh.edu * * * | - PROPAGANDA, from A Secret Wish (CD) ------------------------------ Date: 10 Jun 91 15:59:49 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!atha!aunro!alberta!arcsun.arc.ab.ca!e rkamp@arizona.edu (Bob Erkamp) Subject: Latest ver. of Prospero-C & Fortran To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu This is a reply I got a few months back re: Prospero Software and versions. Bob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originator: prosof@compulink.co.uk Subject: Re: Updates The latest versions are 2.153 for Fortran, and 1.144 for C. Both fix all known 'incompatibilities' that occurred with TOS 1.4 The cost of updating to the current versions is 30 UK pounds, and the master disks will need to be returned with payment (either by a cheque drawn on a UK bank or by credit card) to the address below. Regards Paul Hargreaves. Prospero Software Ltd. 190 Castelnau London SW13 9DH England. ------------------------------ Date: 10 Jun 91 12:51:27 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!cs.utexas.edu!oakhill!Jim_Holt%aprdlgtr.sps.mo t.com@arizona.edu (Jim Holt) Subject: Mint ? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Please forgive me if this has been answered countless times ... I have seen quite a few references to MINT in this group. I am curious about what it is ? Is this something like Unix for an ST ? If so, how/where does one obtain it ? Thanks, JH ------------------------------ Date: 10 Jun 91 08:24:37 GMT From: mcsun!ukc!edcastle!hwcs!neil@uunet.uu.net (Neil Forsyth) Subject: More than 4 Meg ?? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <2642@m1.cs.man.ac.uk> camm@els.ee.man.ac.uk (Ian Camm) writes: > Well 2.5Mb does work on my 520STE with TOS 1.6, but it does think there >are 4Mb there. I have not had any problems yet but I have not (knowingly) >tried to use all of the memory thus far. I have the feeling that when I >do I will commit mass bit murder :-) by trying to throw them into spaces that >aren't there. I will try changing the boards round and let you know what >happens. What you have is 2.5Mb of RAM with the last 512K duplicated 4 times. Your machine thinks it has 4Mb. If you create a 2Mb RAM disk that sits in low RAM then use your machine you'll see weird behaviour as the multiple images get used. You need a little patch program that checks phystop and the memory controller at bootup andif it's 4Mb set it to 2.5Mb then reboot. Actually what we all need is for Atari to fix the &~%*$ ROMs! Does TOS 1.62 have the same problem? >Ian Camm | JANET: camm@uk.ac.man.ee.els >Dept. of Electrical Engineering | ARPA: camm@els.ee.man.ac.uk >University of Manchester, England | UUCP: ...!!ukc!man.ee.els!camm >Disclaimer: If you think I need one make it up yourself. +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ! DISCLAIMER:Unless otherwise stated, the above comments are entirely my own ! ! ! ! Neil Forsyth JANET: neil@uk.ac.hw.cs ! ! Dept. of Computer Science ARPA: neil@cs.hw.ac.uk ! ! Heriot-Watt University UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!neil ! ! Edinburgh, Scotland, UK "That was never 5 SIMMs!" ! +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 10 Jun 91 11:05:24 GMT From: mcsun!ukc!keele!nott-cs!dpg@uunet.uu.net (Dave Gymer) Subject: New version of BASH 1.05 for MiNT To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article erlingh@sigyn.idt.unit.no (Erling Henanger) writes: >Please send binaries and patches, maybe as two separate files if the >patches are big. Everyone who has replied so far has asked for binaries, so I've now sent them off. The diffs are very small, and are included in the .zoo. Enjoy! You'll have to report any bugs to me soon, as I won't have any access to the net from the start of July until the start of October. -- /* 'Grave' Dave Gymer --------- Internet: dpg@Cs.Nott.AC.UK *\ +* 42 St Marys Park, Louth, Lincolnshire, LN11 0EF, England *+ +* Olivier's Law: "Experience is something you don't get *+ \*-------------------------- until just after you need it." */ ------------------------------ Date: 8 Jun 91 06:54:13 GMT From: noao!ncar!csn!boulder!tcr!gbs!root@arizona.edu (Root) Subject: path to Gadgets To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu The path taken by this message is the path "back" to us here at Gadgets. Our machine name is "gbs" as a 7-character name ("gadgets") was causing some problems along the line. I'm "dsmall" here, or "root". The machine is an AT&T 3B1 (7300). The newsfeeds seem to be operating fairly stabley (is that a word?) now. Anyway, since I can't get to the Well machine as often as I'd like, and this machine is much closer (10 feet vs. 2000 miles), I thought I would mention it. I'm open for GCR, SST, MegaTalk, and automatic weapon discussions (*grin*). -- thanks, Dave Small Gadgets by Small / bottlewasher ------------------------------ Date: 10 Jun 91 17:59:18 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!thelake!steve@a rizona.edu (Steve Yelvington) Subject: path to Gadgets To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu [In article <165@gbs.UUCP>, root@gbs.UUCP (Root) (really Dave Small) writes ... ] > The path taken by this message is the path "back" to us here at > Gadgets. Just one quick word of advice before you use the Path: line, though. Put your noggin into action and determine the *closest* site to gbs that your system knows how to reach. Send mail there. Reasons: -- Usenet news paths are rarely the quickest routes. -- Not all systems named in Usenet paths handle mail. (Really!) Using the Path: line without careful thought is a good way to lose mail. -- Sending email through systems you don't own is a privilege, and it's your responsibility to ensure that you don't impose on any more sites than is necessary. Be a good guest. >From the 12-hop Path: line on the article I received, I would guess that ncar.ucar.edu!boulder!tcr!gbs!root might be a working UUCP path, but there probably is a faster one (anybody know the Internet equivalent of boulder?) ---- Steve Yelvington, Marine on St. Croix, Minnesota, USA / steve@thelake.mn.org ------------------------------ Date: 10 Jun 91 08:31:58 GMT From: mcsun!ukc!edcastle!hwcs!neil@uunet.uu.net (Neil Forsyth) Subject: Re: Man w/ pipe To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Well this Bob Dobbs character (actually 4) is just another example of Atari wastage, along with Bea Hablig et al. I think I would have preferred to see four box corner characters, ala IBM, so that we could make up boxes in text. Now some bright spark is going to say "Why not change the font youself". Why should I have to support 3 resolution (6 if you include the TT) to get such a simple addition. Atari should have put something *useful* in there in the first place. +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ! DISCLAIMER:Unless otherwise stated, the above comments are entirely my own ! ! ! ! Neil Forsyth JANET: neil@uk.ac.hw.cs ! ! Dept. of Computer Science ARPA: neil@cs.hw.ac.uk ! ! Heriot-Watt University UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!neil ! ! Edinburgh, Scotland, UK "That was never 5 characters!" ! +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 10 Jun 91 10:20:15 GMT From: mcsun!ukc!keele!nott-cs!lut.ac.uk!elmar@uunet.uu.net (Mohammad A. Rahin) Subject: Reading TOS/DOS diskette on the SparcStation To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Following my earlier query on this subject, I had quite a few responses. Thanks very much to all who responded. For those who might need the summary here it is. Mtools is a suite of package on the SparcStation that allows reading/writing TOS/DOS formatted 3.5" diskettes. The complete package along with the patch files can be obtained from the following anonymous FTP sites : 1. cs.uni-sb.de (134.96.7.254) - directory : pub/sun/mtools 2. cs.uba.ca (137.82.8.5) - directory : src 3. cerl.cecer.army.mil (129.229.1.101) - pub/mtools Finally, thanks again to those who responded. I really appreciate your help. - Rahin ------------------------------ Date: 8 Jun 91 07:07:31 GMT From: noao!ncar!csn!boulder!tcr!gbs!root@arizona.edu (Root) Subject: System 7 on the GCR (from dsmall) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu We've tested (and tested, and tested) the final release Sys 7 on the GCR, and nope, it doesn't work yet. I wouldn't sweat this one too hard; I can recall both systems 6.0.3 and 6.0.5 needing a helping crutch to get them going, too. The problem *seems* straightforward and we're working on it, but you never know if you've got ALL the problems fixed until it runs. I certainly found the following code fragment creative: move.l (a7)+,$fffffffe Near as I can tell, someone wanted the low word off the current stack long into locations 0 and 1. nice. (And yes, I know how many things that breaks...) Anywho. Back to the salt mines, and I'll let you know when we have it functioning. Incidentally, we're seeing reports of some TT's not running with GCR. Move the GCR to another TT, it runs. One known problem is putting a monitor on top of the TT; the monitor generates enough interference in the internal floppy to damp out the disk signal. Solution: move monitor backwards. Another problem we are hearing reports of, but have not gotten into the lab yet, is GCR's having cartridge port troubles. We have no idea what that is (low +5 at cart? Timing changes? You got me...) but are trying to find a non-working GCR/TT to look at and find out. If you're curious, the plan at the moment is to add LAN and internal SCSI drive support to the TT; hopefully this will superset to generic SCSI support for the TT, so about any Mac SCSI peripheral will plug in (if you follow the termination rules -- I wonder what Atari did. Good question, that -- you know, Allan?) However, SST is getting priority at the moment. We also hope to support LAN (Appletalk/Localtalk,(tm)) on the MegaSTE. MegaTalk had a production run of PC boards without plated feedthrus. 100% rejects. That slowed things down. SST h/w is done and we're in the thousand-and-one details of ramping up production; I'm wrapping up some interesting compatibility software for it, so lots of things that normally break on 68030's will work. Anywho, back to the salt mines. (And I hope this post makes it out; getting this link working through two quirky machines is... interesting.) -- thanks, Dave Small Diaper-Changer, Gadgets by Small "I haven't thought up a witty saying yet." ------------------------------ Date: 10 Jun 91 14:57:19 GMT From: bloom-beacon!eru!hagbard!sunic!ugle.unit.no!lise.unit.no!stigvi@ucbvax.berkeley .edu (Stig Vidar Hovland) Subject: TT ram revisited To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu |> From article , by meulenbr@cst.prl.philips.nl (Frans Meulenbroeks): |> |> > Also I found out that the TT ram is 100ns ram. I do not have any 68030 |> > doc handy, but with a 32 Mhz clock, I think at least one (and very maybe 2) |> > wait states will be required to access this memory. |> > Would it be technically feasible to replace this memory with faster |> > memory, and get rid of this wait state? Will 80 ns be enough to get rid |> > of the wait state, or should 60 ns be used?? |> If the cpu need to read data, it is done in burst modus. This means that the cpu reads the first long word in two cycles and the next three long words in three cycles. You will only speed up writing to memory if you replace the memory card with a faster one. There are some third party ram cards which are faster than Ataris, but I don't know nothing about these cards. Stig Vidar Hovland - stigvi@lise.unit.no ------------------------------ Date: 10 Jun 91 12:43:27 GMT From: noao!ncar!gatech!prism!mailer.cc.fsu.edu!nu!boyd@arizona.edu (Mickey Boyd) Subject: X for the ST? (Unix Windows) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <2392@netmbx.UUCP>, perstoro@netmbx.UUCP (Wilhelm Schaefer) writes: >limsico@earthquake.Berkeley.EDU (Carl Limsico) writes: > > >> This question has probably already been asked several times, but >>here it goes: Does anyone know of any type of X-Window >>emulation/server/host for the ST? Please either e-mail or post >>replies! > >On the other hand there is a programm called UW (unix windows). >I think it was designed for the mac first, but it has been >ported to the st by someone. > Unix Windows is not related to X in any way (other than coincidental appearance). It is a great program, which allows one to have muliplexed terminals over one serial line (the terminals are in the form of windows). You can set font sizes, cut and paste, file transfer, etc. It consists of an ST end and a Unix end (which must be compiled for your particular system). I have found that it works great, but is a bit pokey at 2400 (I am waiting for my 9600, zooom). Basically, it acts as a regular terminal program (you dial up, get one terminal window). At that point, you run the unix end (from the initial terminal window). After a few magical packets get transfered back and forth, you can now open more windows, each served by their own login shell. There are at least two versions of the UW package for the ST (I have two). One is more fancy, but less tolerant of accs and tsrs (the port appears european in origin). The other (this one is on atari.archive) has fewer bells and whistles, but is solid (on my system at least). As for an X server on the ST line, I don't envision it happening any time soon. With Ethernet cards so scarce, and 9600 baud modems still in the $500 range there is not a very high demand for one. Don't get me wrong, I would love to have one (and if you find out about one, I will be happy to eat my words). You could probably direct-connect the serial port and run it at 19.2 using a SLIP connection. -- ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- Mickey R. Boyd | "Kirk to Enterprise. All clear FSU Computer Science | down here. Beam down Technical Support Group | yeoman Rand and a six-pack . ." email: boyd@fsucs.cs.fsu.edu | ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ******************************