Info-Atari16 Digest Sat, 1 Jun 91 Volume 91 : Issue 307 Today's Topics: 'only_ste.lzh' .gif files ASCII text files on UNIX and Atari ST assorted TT questions Atari's position in the U.S. Market Atari 540ST Questions Atari Mortis Atari TT Gemini Standard Usages Lynx and sega PageStream 2.1 The Current Market Weekly Posting of New Stuff What's a fair comparison? (2 msgs) What happened to comp.sources.atari.st? Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU. Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored. If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please contact the redistributor, not us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 May 91 15:03:18 GMT From: news-server.csri.toronto.edu!torsqnt!lsuc!jimomura@uunet.uu.net (Jim Omura) Subject: 'only_ste.lzh' To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <134302@unix.cis.pitt.edu> rjast1@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Robert J Anisko) writes: >In article larserio@ifi.uio.no writes: > For any users that might have been Atari 8-bit users at one time, the >MSA (Magic Shadow Archiving) works in the same way as DISCOMM or Scrunch - >it simply takes data from the whole disk (including boot sectors) and >puts it into a file, so it can be transmitted via modem. Then when the >file is received, you just reverse the process and unpack it to a full >disk, boot and all. For some programs and demos, this is the only >way to go about it (say an author doesn't want you messing with his/her >data (by loading a file into an editor such as Edhack) - so he/she >wipes out the directory and makes the program autobooting - kinda >a method of file protection... Now that's getting down right, uh, not-very-intelligent. Anybody with enough knowledge to analyse an object code file probably has sufficient tools to read sectors anyway. For the rest of us who have no intention of playing with their object code they do us the great honour of create a situation where virus distribution can increase. All we need now is somebody forging a copy of this 'only_ste' demo kit with a virus in place of the original boot sector and dozens of STE owners are going to find themselves doubting the wisdom of their purchases. While we're on the topic of viruses, I was very impressed with the "finish" of VKiller. It got me to thinking about such programs. VKiller identifies ST boot sectors and where possible specifically identifies viruses. But even the warning about boot sectors is well done. I was just thinking that many of us use Atari ST's in "mixed environments" with MS-DOS machines and it would be helpful if VKiller identified MS-DOS boot sectors as well. I wouldn't go so far as to try and keep up with the MS-DOS virus situation completely, but just give a warning like this: "MS-DOS Executable boot sector found. If this disk was not supposed to have one, you might want to discuss this with whomever supplied the disk." That way you could alert an MS-DOS user that s/he might have a virus. > > Robert Anisko > rjast1@cis.unix.pitt.edu -- Jim Omura, 2A King George's Drive, Toronto, (416) 652-3880 lsuc!jimomura Byte Information eXchange: jimomura ------------------------------ Date: 1 Jun 91 05:25:03 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!caen!dali.cs.montana.edu!milton!tymbrim i@arizona.edu (Ben Gilbert) Subject: .gif files To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991May31.172345.19875@news.larc.nasa.gov> klassa@asdsun.larc.nasa.gov (John Klassa) writes: >Is there an FTP site somewhere that maintains an archive of .gif files? >Thanks, >John Klassa >klassa@asdsun.larc.nasa.gov Here's a few anonymous FTP sites that have .gif files (I haven't tried all of them yet, they might be outdated...) : System name IP Address ------------------- ------------- a.cs.uiuc.edu 128.174.5.20 ssyx.ucsc.edu 128.114.133.1 surya.waterloo.edu 129.97.129.72 wuarchive.wustl.edu 128.252.135.4 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 May 91 20:45:29 BST From: TAN JUN Subject: ASCII text files on UNIX and Atari ST To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I am very disappointed to find that I cannot use my Atari ST 1040STE at home to write/edit any pure ASCII text files if I want to transfer it later to my SPARC using Mtools. The problem is that, any newline returns are marked with ~M when I use UNIX vi (or Sun textedit) to edit. Actually, I had noticed these strange things quite often when I downloaded stuff from network and un-pack on SPARC and viewed text files such as README, *.doc, *.txt, etc. I could not hit return for extra line, I had to use space for new page as I used UNIX 'more' command. Also, if I used vi to edit, I had the same problem as I had on files transferred from Atari. However, these files are definitely normal when I use 1st-Word or stevie.ttp (vi clone) to edit on my Atari. I have been on this wonderful newsletter list for quite a long time, although I have been always a only silent reader. I wish that somebody could give some advice on this matter. Is that a individual problem only happened to my Atari? Or is that common? Any suggestions or experimences? Prefer reply by E-mail (save bandwidths for good things), or on newsletters. Thanks for consideration. E-mail: tan@uk.ac.essex Jun Tan ------------------------------ Date: 31 May 91 01:43:01 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!chaph.usc.edu!aludra.usc.edu!baffoni@arizona.e du (Juxtaposer) Subject: assorted TT questions To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article meulenbr@cst.prl.philips.nl (Frans Meulenbroeks) writes: >Hi, > >I'm in the process of convincing myself to buy a TT, and I'm stuck with >the following questions: > >As I'm told the TT does not have a 68882 on board, but does have >a socket for such a beast. Right? No the 68882 is standard (however, it may be in a socket...?). >What speed must this beast have, or can is the speed selectable? >the 68881 and 68882 are supposed to be compatible. I owe a 68881. >Can I use that one instead (assuming it is the right speed). The 68882, like the 68030, runs at 32 MHz. >I'm a little puzzled by a previous posting about how memory is >implemented. Are there two different daugtherboards?? >If I buy a 2 MB system is it then just a case to add sims if I want to >upgrade to 4 MB? If not, I think I'll prefer to buy a 4 MB system. >Is such a 4 MB system easily upgradable (e.g. by adding (or maybe >replacing) simms). From a previous posting I concluded that there is >a different daugther board if you go to 8MB. Is the ram on the >second daughter board faster than on the first one?? Ok. The two basic memory types are ST and TT ram. ST ram is located on the mother board (I believe that there is 2MB soldered and 2MB socketed which are empty if you get a 2MB TT or a 4MBTT with 2MB TTram) and doesn't need a daughterboard. TT ram does need a Daughter board (its more than just a bunch of SIMM sockets - it also has a chip that allows access to the TT memory). The TT daughterboard holds 4 SIMMS - up to 16MB max (using 4MB SIMMS). Using the card slot inside the machine, you can add a memory board for even more memory. However, in neither case is it simply a matter of slapping SIMMS into your machine (unless you already have the TT daugterboard). > >What speed is the ram actually. Do I get wait states when accessing the >memory? In any of the above cases?? Since the machine runs at 32MHz, I assume that there are at least 1 wait state on all memory, the TT ram having less than the ST ram. > >Then there is the monitor. Is it possible to use an ST monitor if the >screen is in an ST resolution?? No. Even though the TT displays ST resolutions, it does it on the same signal that displays the TT's special resolutions. >I think the price on a TT monitor is on the high side. However, I'm >told that this is just a regular VGA monitor. Can I go out and buy a VGA >monitor and use it? Probably. I can't see why not (except you may need to "customize" the cable connector). >I assume I need a monitor with 640x480 resolution and 60 or 70 hz >refresh rate, and a D connector plug (forgotten the number of pins). >Do I need a color monitor, or can I also use a monochrome monitor. >Using a monochrome monitor would cut the price with $ 200 or $ 250, and >I do not really need color. I forget - is 640x480 the max resolution of the TT's color screens? If not, you will need to get a monitor that reflects that limit. > >If someone could answer these questions that would be very appreciated. > >Thanks! >-- >Frans Meulenbroeks (meulenbr@prl.philips.nl) > Centre for Software Technology Hope that does it! -Mike ------------------------------ Date: 31 May 91 20:48:30 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!apple!portal!cup.portal.com!Metalist@ arizona.edu (Bryan Jones Woodworth) Subject: Atari's position in the U.S. Market To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Atari's image in America has never been great, has it? Now I hear that STart is going bi-monthly?! Ok. But let me ask you out there: Will the Atari situation ever IMPROVE? Or will it continue to decline? (You can assume this is a rhetorical question.) Bryan_Jones_Woodworth@cup.portal.com ------------------------------ Date: 31 May 91 21:10:20 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!apple!portal!cup.portal.com!Metalist@ arizona.edu (Bryan Jones Woodworth) Subject: Atari 540ST Questions To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu -- Salvador Pinto Abreu spa@fct.unl.pt says: >I wonder which Atari mouse you're talking about. All Atari mice I've >used are the most dreadful rodents I've ever come across, second to >none, not even the "original" VAXstation-100 mouse (ever seen one of >these?) feels as bad. >Finding a replacement mouse seems to me one of the first priorities of >an Atari owner. I recently ordered a Naksha mouse, and await it >eagerly. I have to disagree. You must have been supplied witha faulty mouse. The Atari mouse is lightweight and easy to use. The mouse never moved too slow for me. Like you said, a mouse accelerator is easily obtained if the mouse moves exceedingly slow for you. I cannot understand what you don't like about the Atari mouse! let me say that I am by no means a mouse connoisseur, for I have only fondled two mice: Macintosh and Atari ST. Macintosh, in my opinion, are heavy and unresponsive. I click, but I get no confirmation onscreen. I despise the recessed single button. The Atari ST is easy to move, responsive, and suits my needs. I have felt no urge to get a replacement mouse. Bryan_Jones_Woodworth@cup.portal.com ------------------------------ Date: 31 May 91 18:30:38 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.e du!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!midway!clout!chinet!saj@arizona.edu (Stephen Jacobs) Subject: Atari Mortis To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I hope Jeff won't object to my disclosing a specific issue he mentioned to me in email; it will help people identify what might interest him. One of his major applications is animated graphics, for which he is prepared to write his own code. To me, that sounds like a set-up in favor of the TT. If anyone has benchmarks or pointers to tools directly relating to animated graphics, this might be a good time to mention them. What I'll mention is that there's said to be an awesome TT demo (about an hour's download time worth of it) recently put up on GEnie by Bob Brodie. I won't see it myself for a while, but perhaps someone has more to say about it? Steve saj@chinet.chi.il.us ------------------------------ Date: 30 May 91 07:10:51 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!chaph.usc.edu!aludra.usc.edu!baffoni@arizona.e du (Juxtaposer) Subject: Atari TT To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <17555@chaph.usc.edu> baffoni@aludra.usc.edu (Juxtaposer) writes: >course SOME of it has to be reserved for I/O etc. but not more than 32k worth!) ooops ~~~ That should be around 1MB - just to be generous with the ROMs :). >-Mike -Mike ------------------------------ Date: 31 May 91 18:43:17 GMT From: news-server.csri.toronto.edu!torsqnt!lsuc!jimomura@uunet.uu.net (Jim Omura) Subject: Gemini Standard Usages To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I've been working with Gemini off and on for a while now and I hope somebody can pass these comments to the programming team. It's all regarding the "mupfel.mup" file: HOME is defined as the current "gemini" directory. This is a bad practice. You should tell people to define "HOME" to their current "working directory", whereever that is. On a Unix system, my normal HOME directory would generally be something like "/usr/mygroup/jimomura". This is the directory in which I do my usual work. The thing to emphasize is that it has *nothing* to do with the operating system or executables. In fact, it's mainly just text data files of my own concern. If you don't learn this concept early on your going to scr*w up your system organization by writing programs that look to the wrong places for the wrong things. Also, I have no idea what they are intending to use the "CDPATH" for. I've never seen it on a Unix system or an OS-9 system and I don't know what program would look for it. Is that supposed to be a path for CD Rom applications? -- Jim Omura, 2A King George's Drive, Toronto, (416) 652-3880 lsuc!jimomura Byte Information eXchange: jimomura ------------------------------ Date: 31 May 91 23:47:05 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!umich!terminato r!terminator.cc.umich.edu!weiner@arizona.edu (Jeff Weiner) Subject: Lynx and sega To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Has anyone seen the commercial for sega's new portable game machine? Color graphics that, at least on tv, look comperable to the lynx. Could spell trouble for one of the better selling atari machines. weiner -- Jeff Weiner --- weiner@{{sklyab,felix}.engin, atari.archive}.umich.edu ------------------------------ Date: 31 May 91 06:36:41 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-st ate.edu!dsac.dla.mil!dsacg3.dsac.dla.mil!desc.dla.mil!wright!desire.wright.edu! cse0507@arizona.edu Subject: PageStream 2.1 To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I talked to SoftLogik this week, and evidently PageStream 2.1 is done, they're just waiting to get the manuals before they ship (the manuals were just sent to the printer's this week). I asked them if they had considered sending the program out without the manual (for us bravos), and they said they had just started considering it that day. I then indicated :-) that I would be one of those who is extremely brave, and would like to go mad trying to figure out PageStream without the manual :-) :-) :-). So, to all those who have an interest in PageStream, would you call SoftLogik and help me get my upgrade early? Tell them Bob Schulze would like to have his software now, and incidentally you'd like a copy too. { HUGE :-) } 1-800-829-8608 is the U.S. toll-free number; I'm afraid I can't lay my hands on numbers for any other country. T'anks. Bob The Schulze ------------------------------ Date: 31 May 91 14:41:27 GMT From: news-server.csri.toronto.edu!torsqnt!lsuc!jimomura@uunet.uu.net (Jim Omura) Subject: The Current Market To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu These are just some random observations about the current market and definitely NOT a complete overview of what's happening in the Toronto area: Long & McQuaide North is a music store -- NOT a computer store, but they had a stack of 1040STEs and has sold them all. Obviously if a music store with no real computer people can sell 1040STEs there's a market for STEs. Comspec, a computer store next door to L&M has discontinued stocking Atari products completely. That's not much of a loss to the Atari community. Comspec has always preferred Amigas and would go to great lengths to sell Amigas at the expense of ST sales. Still, I agree with a lot of the things Comspec has to say about the current Atari Corp. and the Canadian situation. I'm not at all happy about the current trend in Atari to "pull out of Canada" and leave us with a warehouse and repair department. Though I plan to do development on the ST for the immediate future, if things don't turn around on this matter I'll probably move on to another platform. CompuPlace is strange. I've always felt they were strange and now their getting even stranger. Not bad, mind you, but if you look at the software they carry, I just don't know why they get in what they do. The best thing they have lately is a good supply of the British magazines. That and they have 2 of the better flight simulators. They have Proflight (British simulator of the Tornado that's supposed to be really good) and the F-19 pseudo-simulator (simulating a non- existant plane is, well, interesting). They are essentially out of stock of 1040STE's but will be getting more. I have been hearing rumours that Atari has really been jerking around the dealers with the recent price drops. I hope this isn't true. -- Jim Omura, 2A King George's Drive, Toronto, (416) 652-3880 lsuc!jimomura Byte Information eXchange: jimomura ------------------------------ Date: 1 Jun 91 08:26:04 GMT From: noao!asuvax!ukma!rex!samsung!umich!terminator!usenet@arizona.edu (Atari Archive Robot) Subject: Weekly Posting of New Stuff To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu -rw-rw-rw- hyc 819302 May 25 17:38 ./gnustuff/tos/update8.zoo -rw-r--r-- weiner 803295 May 25 10:04 ./ste/only_ste.lzh -rw-r--r-- weiner 9750 May 27 10:26 ./utilities/Index drwxr-xr-x weiner 512 May 27 10:25 ./utilities/virus -rw-r--r-- weiner 65152 May 27 10:25 ./utilities/virus/vkiller.lzh drwxrwxr-x jon 1560 May 27 10:21 ./magazines/znet drwxrwxr-x weiner 512 May 27 10:19 ./ste drwxrwxr-x daemon 1024 May 28 22:48 . drwxrwxr-x jon 512 May 28 22:39 ./misc -rw-r--r-- weiner 4870 May 28 22:39 ./misc/2_5ram.zoo -rw-r--r-- weiner 962 May 28 22:40 ./misc/Index -rw-r--r-- weiner 9807 May 28 22:36 ./utilities/Index drwxr-xr-x weiner 512 May 28 22:35 ./utilities/doubclick -rw-r--r-- weiner 5376 May 28 22:35 ./utilities/doubclick/dcr_tmag.arc drwxrwxr-x weiner 512 May 28 06:49 ./tex/tex31 drwxrwxr-x jon 536 May 28 22:29 ./gnustuff -rw-r--r-- weiner 91771 May 28 22:29 ./gnustuff/gnu881_s.zoo -rw-r--r-- weiner 34937 May 28 22:29 ./gnustuff/gnu881_x.zoo -rw-r--r-- weiner 261542 May 28 22:29 ./gnustuff/gnuplt_x.zoo -rw-r--r-- weiner 10856 May 28 22:32 ./gnustuff/Index -rw-rw-r-- weiner 2424 May 28 22:34 ./printing/Index -rw-r--r-- weiner 81389 May 28 22:45 ./Index -rw-r--r-- weiner 40865 May 28 22:45 ./CompInd.Z -rw-r--r-- weiner 63357 May 28 22:47 ./ls-lR.Z drwxrwxr-x daemon 1024 May 29 12:22 . drwxrwxr-x jon 6144 May 29 12:17 ./utilities -rw-r--r-- weiner 9933 May 29 12:21 ./utilities/Index drwxrwxr-x weiner 512 May 29 12:18 ./utilities/tosfixes -rw-r--r-- weiner 4096 May 29 12:18 ./utilities/tosfixes/serptch2.lzh drwxrwxr-x weiner 512 May 29 12:17 ./utilities/mouse -rw-r--r-- weiner 2071 May 29 12:17 ./utilities/mouse/rt_move2.lzh drwxr-xr-x weiner 512 May 29 12:21 ./utilities/filemenus -rw-r--r-- weiner 34541 May 29 12:20 ./utilities/filemenus/stwhiz11.lzh drwxrwxr-x jon 2048 May 29 12:15 ./telecomm -rw-r--r-- weiner 43090 May 29 12:15 ./telecomm/dterm_1k.lzh -rw-r--r-- weiner 2546 May 29 12:15 ./telecomm/Index drwxrwxr-x jon 1536 May 29 12:15 ./printing -rw-r--r-- weiner 37760 May 29 12:15 ./printing/pamflite.lzh -rw-rw-r-- weiner 2470 May 29 12:16 ./printing/Index -rw-r--r-- weiner 81561 May 29 12:22 ./Index -rw-r--r-- weiner 40961 May 29 12:22 ./CompInd.Z drwxrwxr-x daemon 1024 May 30 06:50 . drwxrwxr-x jon 4096 May 30 06:40 ./games -rw-r--r-- weiner 48896 May 30 06:40 ./games/col_drac.arc -rw-rw-r-- weiner 7798 May 30 06:41 ./games/Index -rw-r--r-- weiner 81618 May 30 06:41 ./Index -rw-r--r-- weiner 40995 May 30 06:41 ./CompInd.Z -rw-r--r-- weiner 63573 May 30 06:43 ./ls-lR.Z drwxrwxr-x daemon 1024 May 31 14:58 . drwxrwxr-x jon 1024 May 31 06:54 ./editors drwxrwxr-x jon 3072 May 31 14:42 ./graphics -rw-r--r-- weiner 63501 May 31 14:42 ./graphics/neochro2.lzh -rw-r--r-- weiner 5356 May 31 14:44 ./graphics/Index drwxrwxr-x jon 3072 May 31 14:57 ./diskutils -rw-rw-r-- weiner 5333 May 31 14:57 ./diskutils/Index -rw-r--r-- weiner 51432 May 31 14:56 ./diskutils/stree104.arc -rw-r--r-- weiner 81651 May 31 14:58 ./Index -rw-r--r-- weiner 40983 May 31 14:58 ./CompInd.Z ------------------------------ Date: 31 May 91 18:49:44 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!mintak a!bloom-beacon!eru!hagbard!sunic!kth.se!ugle.unit.no!erlingh@arizona.edu (Erling Henanger) Subject: What's a fair comparison? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu -- _______ _____ o ____ Erling Henanger /___ /____/ / / /| / / Norwegian Institute / /\ / / / | / | ___ of Technology. (NTH) ------ / \ /____ / / |/ \____| o MS-dos should be dying! ------------------------------ Date: 31 May 91 14:41:40 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio -state.edu!linac!midway!clout!chinet!saj@arizona.edu (Stephen Jacobs) Subject: What's a fair comparison? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991May30.223629.13096@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> vsnyder@jato.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Van Snyder) writes: >In article <1991May30.145023.1684@chinet.chi.il.us> saj@chinet.chi.il.us (Stephen Jacobs) writes: >>I seem to be involved in what is fast becoming a shouting match about relative >>price and performance of Atari computers vs those based on Intel chips. One >>of the main problems is knowing what to compare with which. So how about we >>pick some fair yardsticks. Atari isn't 'Joes Garage Computer Manufactorie', >>fun with. Cross-platform benchmarks are damn near impossible (Byte magazine >>has had several articles on the subject), but I'll modestly propose as a >>benchmark the time for GNU C to compile itself, with all temporary files on >>hard disk. Any other suggestions? >> >Some of the benchmarks people commonly use are Dhrystone (integer performance), >Whetstone (Floating point performance), Linpack (Floating point performance), >Livermore loops (Floating point performance), SpecMark (Overall system >performance, but belongs to SPEC Inc). The advantage of using these is that >you don't have to re-do the benchmarks on the other machines, which you >might not own. I've seen dhrystone for the ST, maybe at atari.archive? > I know that linpack (which used to be considered the great 'real-world' benchmark) is no longer considered a fair comparison of machines because it's too architecture-sensitive (especially to cache and super-scalar aspects). Whetstone never seems to have caught on for micros, perhaps someone knows why and will say. I guess Byte eventually picked a suite of benchmarks, which they make available in source, but they hedged pretty heavily about counting on them across architectures. I'm assuming that the people who participate in this discussion have some applications that exercise a processor pretty thoroughly, and might be considered as successors to Linpack. For what it's worth, I talked to a friend who rides herd on some big iron, and he says that simply saying that beyond a certain machine speed my biggest application (chromatographic data processing) is disk-bound sounds like a benchmark to him. I disagree, but I'll toss it into the discussion. Steve saj@chinet.chi.il.us ------------------------------ Date: 31 May 91 10:39:55 GMT From: mcsun!hp4nl!utrcu1!infnews!ramaer@uunet.uu.net (Mark Ramaer) Subject: What happened to comp.sources.atari.st? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu A long long time ago in a place not far from here (within 10cm :-) I offered to submit some example sources of a GEM program if people were interested. People were interested, so I sent it to atari-sources@unido.informatik.uni-dortmund.de but I have not seen anything since then. I can imagin that the moderator disliked it so much that he (she?) threw it away, but I have not seen anything else in comp.sources.atari.st either. Is it still alive? Is it normal that it takes a long time? Should I send it to twitterpater instead? Have other sites received any sources? #ifdef utwente.nl Hier binnen de universiteit was er ook iemand ge\"{$\imath$}nteresseerd. Als die me even mailt, wil ik het wel rechtstreeks sturen. #endif According to `ls -l` that long time ago is before 13 may. Mark ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ******************************