Today's Topics: Atari 540ST Questions (2 msgs) Atari TT (4 msgs) COBOL on Atari STe German PCB-CADs LASER PRINTERS AND THE ST Legal action against STrabble game. (2 msgs) Mega STe Question (or Problems) (4 msgs) MPE2+ or Platon My stupidity (2 msgs) Rainbow TOS Bombs again ST User Virus! Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU. Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored. If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please contact the redistributor, not us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 28 May 91 10:25:51 GMT From: mcsun!inesc!unl!unl!spa@uunet.uu.net (Salvador Pinto Abreu) Subject: Atari 540ST Questions To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu on 28 May 91 05:43:31 GMT, mforget@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Michel Forget) said: [stuff deleted] >> 3) How good is the mouse system on the unit? > The mouse isn't bad at all. It has two buttons, and looks fairly good. > It is a nice mouse, but there are third party mice available if you don't > like it. The Atari mouse is FAR BETTER than the Mac mouse, which I have > to use at school. It has a better response and moves faster. I wonder which Atari mouse you're talking about. All Atari mice I've used are the most dreadful rodents I've ever come across, second to none, not even the "original" VAXstation-100 mouse (ever seen one of these?) feels as bad. Finding a replacement mouse seems to me one of the first priorities of an Atari owner. I recently ordered a Naksha mouse, and await it eagerly. I'm saying this based on the general slowness of the mouse (a mouse accelerator is a possible way around this particular problem), the unbelievable way it resists being effectively cleaned (the metal rollers inside seem to get corroded or something, and will tend to stick, for instance my mouse has this tendency to not go left), and the number of times you have to press the buttons (and the strength you have to apply too) before it considers your gesture as a click. [stuff deleted] > << ---------------------------------- >> > << ersys!mforget@nro.cs.athabascau.ca >> > << mforget@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca >> > << Michel Forget >> > << ---------------------------------- >> -- -- Salvador Pinto Abreu spa@fct.unl.pt Universidade Nova de Lisboa, PORTUGAL ------------------------------ Date: 28 May 91 14:31:01 GMT From: noao!ncar!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!fauern!faui 43.informatik.uni-erlangen.de!csbrod@arizona.edu (Claus Brod) Subject: Atari 540ST Questions To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu mforget@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Michel Forget) writes: >Yes, there is a 720K floppy drive built in. The older systems had 360K >floppies, but the newer ones don't. It is fairly fast, but don't expect >miracles. It seems faster than the IBM counterparts, though. There are >also the usual assortment of Hard Drives available. I haven't seen any >CD-Roms yet or Optical Drives yet, though. There are removable Hard >Drive cartridge systems and 10 MEG floppies, though. Atari sells two kind of CD-ROMs. The CDAR504 has a ACSI port, the CDAR505 is a SCSI device. There is also a MOD from Sony. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Claus Brod, Am Felsenkeller 2, Things. Take. Time. D-8772 Marktheidenfeld, Germany (Piet Hein) csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de Claus_Brod@wue.maus.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 26 May 91 15:19:57 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!linus!philabs!crpmks !wizkid!admiral!slammy@arizona.edu (Dave Litchman) Subject: Atari TT To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Ok, I'm sure we've all SEEN the TT, at shows and such, but does anyone HAVE one yet? // slammy@admiral.UUCP (Dave Litchman) The Grid/Magpie and /Waffle BBS (HST/V32) 203-661-1279 (PEP/V32) -2873 (V32) -0450 (V29/MNP6) -2967 Multiplayer Games, Multicolor Chat, Multibbses, Multifun! ------------------------------ Date: 28 May 91 12:15:45 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!psuvax1!psuv m!dbngmd13!dmswwu1c!onm07@arizona.edu (Julian F. Reschke) Subject: Atari TT To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article , slammy@admiral.UUCP (Dave Litchman) says: > >Ok, I'm sure we've all SEEN the TT, at shows and such, but does anyone >HAVE one yet? > Yes. Since September 1990. Most professional developers in Germany have one. ------------------------------ Date: 28 May 91 17:10:52 GMT From: ogicse!milton!alexd@uunet.uu.net (Alex Danilchik) Subject: Atari TT To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu For years I have been waiting for a TT.. but when I finally saw one at my local dealer's, I wasn't impressed enough to plop down the cash for a TT/8... since the TT/2 is almost worthless. My dealer has had TT's for months and hasn't sold a single one yet... though he tells me IB computers has been selling them mail order. BTW: my dealer price on the TT/2 sans monitor is $2,100. Could this be the problem? Seem like a reasonable price. But.. to get into 8 megs at an additional $800 or so... i wonder... Are dealers selling these things? cheers! gunnar alexd@milton.u.washington.edu ------------------------------ Date: 28 May 91 14:27:49 GMT From: noao!ncar!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!fauern!faui 43.informatik.uni-erlangen.de!csbrod@arizona.edu (Claus Brod) Subject: Atari TT To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu slammy@admiral.UUCP (Dave Litchman) writes: >Ok, I'm sure we've all SEEN the TT, at shows and such, but does anyone >HAVE one yet? Yep. Since October 1990. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Claus Brod, Am Felsenkeller 2, Things. Take. Time. D-8772 Marktheidenfeld, Germany (Piet Hein) csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de Claus_Brod@wue.maus.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 28 May 91 09:55:14 GMT From: noao!ncar!hsdndev!wuarchive!psuvax1!psuvm!dbngmd13!dmswwu1c!zv0009@arizona.edu Subject: COBOL on Atari STe To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I need a COBOL - System for the Atari STe . Who can tell me, where to get one? ------------------------------ Date: 28 May 91 15:04:43 GMT From: bloom-beacon!eru!hagbard!sunic!fuug!news.funet.fi!news@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (Antila Marko) Subject: German PCB-CADs To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Hello there all PCB-designers! Here is short review of some German PCB-cad packages for Atari ST. I evaluated the demo versions the authors of those programs sent me. The biggest drawback (or advantage to some of you:=) is that all these programs are in German and the documents are also in German. --- program: Layout 1.3 PD author : Uwe Klatt price : PD This is a working public domain PCB-cad package . There is output support only for 9-pin printer and it's limited to 2-sided boards. But it's very good starting point. It is somewhat slow but it has adequate zooming and object handling functions. I liked this one (especially the price range is OK :=). You can't really use accessories with this program (it tends to crash then). --- program : Connecti_CAD author : Uwe Klatt price : about DM 50,- Connecti_CAD is basically expanded version of Layout 1.3. It is faster, can output to 24-pin printer (+ other formats) and it has more line widths and sizes of soldering dots. Nice "Mac-type" fonts. --- program: PCB-Edit author : Rosin Software price : about DM 200,- This program is different from all the other programs in the way it handles graphic objects. It's not vector oriented (when scaling is relatively easy) but raster (or pixel) oriented so it "draws" the whole layout to the memory and outputs to screen the visible portion of that layout. Because of this concept it is very fast but all the zooming function etc are seriously limited. You can edit objects pixel by pixel and thus generate some weird pad-forms and lines. To a certain degree it's only general drawing program but this means that you can also draw schematics with this package. --- program: PCB-Layout author : Thomas Praefcke price : about DM 200,- This is very similar to Connecti-CAD but the routing options are better (program does intelligent routing). Doesn't support 9-pin printer (but supports 24-pin printer). Accessories work well with this program. --- program : Platon 1.4 author : VHF-Computer price : about DM 300,- This is the most comprehensive PCB-CAD package of all these reviewed. Almost all of its parameters are user-configurable (line widths, pad sizes etc). There are plenty of output formats, dot-matrix printers, laserprinters and possibly gerber (that may cost extra). You can also build a component libraries and extract the bill-of-materials. The user interface is somewhat confusing (drop-down + hierachical pop-up menus + icons) but there really are plenty of options. There is also version 2.0 available (it costs about DM 500,-) and its evidently enchanced version of the v1.4 :=). --- I could send demos of these programs to atari.arch or some similar place provided that a) they aren't there already b) there is enough general interest to the demos c) it is totally legal (maybe have to check from the authors) I haven't used these programs for real designing, just gone through the menus & options and checked what's available so if there are real users of these programs around they may have different opinions and views of many things. Comments & corrections are welcome. Obligatory disclaimer: I'm not connected with any of the previously mentioned PCB-CAD:s :=) * Marko Antila (ma62141@tut.fi) ! PhoHome +358-31-183539 * * Tampere University of Technology ! PhoWork +358-31-161900 * * Signal Processing Lab, P.O.Box 527 ! ====================== * * SF-33101 Tampere, Finland ! Vacuum tube rules OK * ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 May 91 09:13:14 ADT From: Alyre CHIASSON Subject: LASER PRINTERS AND THE ST To: N I wish to purchase a printer that will give better copy than my star NX-2400 when used in combination with CALAMUS. I am a bit confused about the speed of printing using laser printers other than ATARI'S and the amount of printer memory needed. If I was to purchase a HP Laserjet or compatible printer how much printer memory would I need to print at 360 dpi? I have 4 MEGs of computer memory. How fast would the printing be, long waits will really affect my productivity. I could just purchase the ATARI'S laser print but it would leave will little funding left for the remainder of my project, so I am looking for the best printing speed and quality for the money. I not too sure about the price for the new Atari Laser printer but was told it was around $1,550.00 Canadian. I would appreciate any recommendations on this purchase. Thanks CHIASSAL@udem.bitnet ------------------------------ Date: 28 May 91 14:06:45 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu !utgpu!cunews!bnrgate!bigsur!bcars241!brad@arizona.edu (Brad Shapcott) Subject: Legal action against STrabble game. To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991May27.210009.16927@lsuc.on.ca> jimomura@lsuc.on.ca (Jim Omura) writes: >In article <4cVH31w164w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca> mforget@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Michel Forget) writes: >>As a side note, it has happened in the past that an author will take a >>story, change a few superficial details, and then re-release it. On the > > A nice general statement without specific facts to back it >up. Actually I was just reading a collection of essays by Isaac Asimov in which he refers to an incident in which a plagairized story was published in his maga- zine (or at least the one that bears his name) without the editor's knowledge. This sort of thing does happen quite often (well, compared to the frequency with which I would suspect that people would be stupid enough to think they can get away with it). >Look, take this discussion to 'net.legal' or whatever it's >called. You're not saying anything that's "special" to the Atari >community, so you may as well talk to people who are more likely >to be interested in the discussion than those in this group. I think the legal issues related to software have always been of particular interest to the Atari community, from piracy to copyright and so on. Because the Atari market is so heavily dependant on shareware, legal decisions regard- ing copyright status and licensing do have a special interest for us. For instance if a licence is held by a large software corporation for a part- icular application which has done quite well on other computers, yet the corporation has no intention of developing it on the Atari, to what extent would a piece of shareware which closely approximates that application be a copyright violation? And how close do you have to come before you are infringing on a copyright? Reverse engineered? File compatibility? Look- and-feel (see Unix Review, Vol. 8, No. 12 on that one)? I mean if it is obvious to the court that Scrabble is just a variant on crosswords, and while entitled to its particular format and graphics the company owning this game cannot extend its copyright to EVERY crossword variant (regardless of medium), then close duplicates would have legal grounds to refute the owning company's claims. So this particular issue does have a lot of relevance to Atarians, since it is a piece of software for their machine being jeopardized, and because these alternate distribution systems (shareware, etc) are so important to the Atari community. While I haven't generally been interested in playing computer games since high school, and so have never even seen STrabble, I AM interested in the legal results in this case. >Jim Omura brad ------------------------------ Date: 28 May 91 07:57:49 GMT From: mcsun!ukc!edcastle!hwcs!neil@uunet.uu.net (Neil Forsyth) Subject: Legal action against STrabble game. To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1624@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> warwick@cs.uq.oz.au writes: >Even if the Laws are wrong, or the library's actions are legal, they may not >receive justice, simply because of a lack of funds. True. In this case however Spears were justified, although a little heavy handed. >>I'm surprised Dave gets off with Hacman 2. > >I'm GLAD. Me too. >> ... if PD stuff competed really >>strongly with commercial products then companies would go out of business. > >So what? I think if someone is willing to give you something BETTER for >FREE, then they shouldn't be punished. The problem is too many people like >that poster have the attitude "It would be nice, but the Law doesn't allow >it". It could hurt some companies every bit as much as piracy, which is the illegal version of free software. Say a company comes out with a new and very innovative game for the ST in the UK. Some other group produce a clone, a BETTER clone and start distributing it via the net. Soon the world will have the PD version before some have even heard of the commercial one. When the commercial version turns up reviewers would be saying "Not as good as the PD version" and so no sale. Does that sound extreme? Maybe, but that is what worries companies and that is what they are trying to prevent. If a company lets things slip by then things can get out of hand. Look at NEOchrome from Atari. Lots of people got version 0.5 free with their ST way back. Despite the documentation clearly stating that it was a preview version and the fact that later versions were on sale, PD libraries see it as free. I have a letter from Atari saying that it is not. >Laws can be wrong. Ain't that the truth! Nuff said. >Warwick. >-- > _-_|\ warwick@cs.uq.oz.au > / * <-- Computer Science Department, > \_.-._/ University of Queensland, > v Brisbane, AUSTRALIA. ------------------------------ Date: 28 May 91 11:37:35 GMT From: math.fu-berlin.de!mailgzrz!opal!fauern!faui43.informatik.uni-erlangen.de!csbrod @uunet.uu.net (Claus Brod) Subject: Mega STe Question (or Problems) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu johnj@knor.prl.philips.nl (John Janssen) writes: >Is the following normal? >1. When I switch on the computer, it takes very long (>30s) > until it boots from hard disk. Wait ca. 5s after coldboot, then press a key. The Mega will then boot immediately. >2. When there is no floppy disk in the floppy drive > the light of that drive stays on forever (after booting). This is perfectly normal for any ST. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Claus Brod, Am Felsenkeller 2, Things. Take. Time. D-8772 Marktheidenfeld, Germany (Piet Hein) csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de Claus_Brod@wue.maus.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 28 May 91 11:40:07 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia .edu!ira.uka.de!fauern!faui43.informatik.uni-erlangen.de!csbrod@arizona.edu (Claus Brod) Subject: Mega STe Question (or Problems) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu ekrimen@ecst.csuchico.edu (Ed Krimen) writes: >Jerry Pournelle in his 'review' in Byte also commented on this delay. He >made it seem like his TT waited for several minutes however. Which sheds some light on the way he likes to test gadgets. He would only have to press any key... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Claus Brod, Am Felsenkeller 2, Things. Take. Time. D-8772 Marktheidenfeld, Germany (Piet Hein) csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de Claus_Brod@wue.maus.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 28 May 91 10:43:15 GMT From: mcsun!hp4nl!phigate!prle!prles2!knor!johnj@uunet.uu.net (John Janssen) Subject: Mega STe Question (or Problems) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu My question about the boot sequence of the Mega STe seems to be not totally clear. So I try to add the correct information here and come straight to the point: 1. My Mega STe waits 30 seconds before it boots from hard disk, although I do have an empty (formatted) floppy disk in the floppy drive. 2. The special point of my start-sequence was, that I could only decrease the idle time (in front of the booting process) by pressing the 'return' key on the correct moment. This correct moment is immediately after the 3rd switch-on of the FD-light after switching on the computer, or immediately after the 2nd switch-on of the FD-light incase of a reboot by means of the Ctrl-Alt-RightShift-Del key press. Note that the first flash of the three flashes mentioned above is very short, and not noticable if you do not pay attention, while the other two flashes (in both re-boot situations) are very obvious as they last for a second or so. So please let me know if these two procedures are correct. As I stated before, I will be off the net for a few(?) days from Friday May 31th onwards, so I probably won't be able to read replies on the net, as they sometimes take a few days... and my money back guarantee expires in a few days! So please REPLY BY EMAIL . I will summarise when I'm back on the net. -- John Janssen Check the email address in the header, as this J.v.Deventerstr.1 may have been filled in wrong by the system. Venlo Holland +31 77 513177 Reply to: johnj@idms.prl.philips.nl ------------------------------ Date: 28 May 91 14:10:43 GMT From: mcsun!corton!laas!ralph@uunet.uu.net (Ralph P. Sobek) Subject: Mega STe Question (or Problems) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991May28.113735.22168@informatik.uni-erlangen.de> csbrod@immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Claus Brod) writes: | >2. When there is no floppy disk in the floppy drive | > the light of that drive stays on forever (after booting). | | This is perfectly normal for any ST. As just a reminder, there exists KILLDRV which turns off that darn floppy disk light. It was either posted to USENET or is available from atari.archive. Both source and binaries should be available: -rw-r--r-- 1 ralph 3188 Jan 2 11:22 lzh/killdrvb.lzh -rw-r--r-- 1 ralph 1618 Jan 2 11:24 lzh/killdrvs.lzh Cheers, -- Ralph P. Sobek Disclaimer: The above ruminations are my own. ralph@laas.fr Addresses are ordered by importance. ralph@laas.uucp, or ...!uunet!laas!ralph If all else fails, try: sobek@eclair.Berkeley.EDU =============================================================================== Proud owner of a Mega 4 ST. Wishing it was a Mega STe! :-| ------------------------------ Date: 28 May 91 10:47:41 GMT From: mcsun!hp4nl!ooc.uva.nl!nils@uunet.uu.net (Nils Arbeitstein) Subject: MPE2+ or Platon To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu does any of you know, and or have worked with either one of these programs, cause i'm now making my pcb's on a pc, but it's kind of a bother to drive all the way down to my friends, to make a pcb on his computer. nils. ------------------------------ Date: 28 May 91 08:22:41 GMT From: mcsun!unido!laura!tommy!klute@uunet.uu.net (Rainer Klute) Subject: My stupidity To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <16582@helios.TAMU.EDU>, n160ao@tamuts.tamu.edu (Mark Lehmann) writes: |> I looked at the man pages and |> tried the followin command: |> |> zoo {x}[//] d:\term\download\sozobon1.zoo |> |> But zoo doesn't understand and just give me the usage line. Hmm, well, you should not actually type the braces and brackets. They are metasymbols meaning you *must* type one of the characters in the braces and you *may* take one (or more) from those in brackets. You should try the command: zoo x// d:\term\download\sozobon1.zoo -- Dipl.-Inform. Rainer Klute klute@irb.informatik.uni-dortmund.de Univ. Dortmund, IRB klute@unido.uucp, klute@unido.bitnet Postfach 500500 |)|/ Tel.: +49 231 755-4663 D-4600 Dortmund 50 |\|\ Fax : +49 231 755-2386 ------------------------------ Date: 28 May 91 14:19:55 GMT From: noao!ncar!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!bu.edu!m2c!jjmhome!hunt@arizona.edu (Tad J. Hunt) Subject: My stupidity To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Yes!! Please post the info about the modem control lines! Thanks! Tad ------------------------------ Date: 28 May 91 15:15:16 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!rpi!crdgw1!gecrdvm1!syspmzt@arizona.edu Subject: Rainbow TOS Bombs again To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <12020002@hpspdra.spd.HP.COM>, freds@hpspdra.spd.HP.COM (Fred Saavedra) says: > >I have recently installed the new? rainbow TOS in my mega2. > >*flameon* >It seems to run less software than the old version, which >is depressing since the my older 1040 which I sold for the Mega >ran the largest set of software. > >Well is it my imagination??? > >Is there a solution to all this bombing? >*flame off* > I just bought a 1040 STe and upgraded the memory to 4 meg. I've noticed that a lot of pd software others have suggested as great programs do not run or bomb my system. Examples so far are CAL 5.0, which will not run, and MELT, which melts the screen then bombs the system. Some of the software that I wrote with Personal Pascal long ago (I gave up writing for the machine about 3 years ago) has some odd reactions on the STe that my old 1040 did not. I'm also interested in what the architectural differences are between an ST and an STe. Phil Z ------------------------------ Date: 28 May 91 15:16:28 GMT From: mcsun!ukc!stl!crosfield!imt@uunet.uu.net (ian taylor) Subject: ST User Virus! To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu (This is probably only of interest to UK netters, although I believe ST User magazine is available internationally by mail order) Has anyone had problems with this months (June) ST User cover disk? I think that there is a free virus included on the coverdisk, which mangled the directory of two of my disks before I eradicated it. This is the second time that ST User has done this, and frankly I am bloody unimpressed. Anyone who's got this disk, beware. ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ******************************