Info-Atari16 Digest Thu, 25 Apr 91 Volume 91 : Issue 230 Today's Topics: Disk Questions (3 msgs) Driver needed For Sale Gnustuff (2 msgs) HD identification (Was: Megafile 60 noisy startup/ shutdown How many books come with DBMan 5.01 KAOS TOS 1.4 METAFILE (Graphics) editor - Where can I get one? next release of mupfel Nroff for the ST? Okami Shell - NOT with VI, NO ARGV/xARG support! Pari (68 lines) ST Basic TEAC SCSI floppy summary Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU. Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored. If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please contact the redistributor, not us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 25 Apr 91 02:15:57 GMT From: arizona.edu!cerritos.edu!nic.csu.net!usc!samsung!spool.mu.edu!mips!wrdis01!emor y!ogicse!unmvax!nmt.edu!eahsnsr@arizona.edu (Eric A. Hobbs) Subject: Disk Questions To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Is it advisable to use Twister format with a 10 sec/track disk? Has anyone had any problems? Also, what is the correct RPM for a SS/DD disk drive? Can you adjust it easily? I have been having bad sector problems with my disks (And I use good quality disks, too.). ------------- Eric A. HOBBS! eahsnsr@jupiter.nmt.edu ------------------------------ Date: 25 Apr 91 05:08:35 GMT From: noao!ncar!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!wrdis01!gatech!prism!mailer.cc.fsu.edu !nu!boyd@arizona.edu (Mickey Boyd) Subject: Disk Questions To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Apr25.021557.28026@nmt.edu>, eahsnsr@nmt.edu (Eric A. Hobbs) writes: > >Is it advisable to use Twister format with a 10 sec/track disk? >Has anyone had any problems? > I use 82 track, 10 sec/track, twisted (as offered by Universal Item Selector and Neodesk 3.0) for all floppies. Never had a problem. I have a DC utility (MAXTRAK I think), which tests your particular drive to see what the maximum format you can use is. I will put it on atari.archive if it is not there already. Remember, different drives can do different things, and Atari only guarentees 80/9 formatting. Just because I have no problems does not mean you will not. >Also, what is the correct RPM for a SS/DD disk drive? Can you adjust it >easily? 300rpm, + or - 5. > >I have been having bad sector problems with my disks (And I use good >quality disks, too.). > There are two common causes that I am familiar with. 1. You are using too "large" a format, as described above. This DC utility should tell you if that is it. 2. Do you clean your drive heads? Suprisingly, if the answer is yes that may be the problem. 3.5" drives are fairly enclosed, as are the disks, and therefore require cleaning much less regularly that the old 5.25" drives (I have never cleaned mine, in 2 years). Also, the drive head is more sensitive (due to it's increased precision). What happens is that folks that used to clean their 5.25" devices all the time purchase a "cleaning diskette" for their 3.5" drives because they feel it necessary. If this cleaning disk is of the fibrus type, it can slowly abrade and score the drive head cover (made of clear plastic) until errors start to occur. I was told to never use such a cleaning device in a modern 3.5" drive. A q-tip and some alcohol every few thousand hours is all that is needed (and I don't even do that :-). >------------- >Eric A. HOBBS! >eahsnsr@jupiter.nmt.edu -- ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- Mickey R. Boyd | "Kirk to Enterprise. All clear FSU Computer Science | down here. Beam down Technical Support Group | yeoman Rand and a six-pack . ." email: boyd@fsucs.cs.fsu.edu | ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 25 Apr 91 05:40:43 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!jarthur!petunia!csuchico.edu!ekrimen@arizona.e du (Ed Krimen) Subject: Disk Questions To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Apr25.021557.28026@nmt.edu> eahsnsr@nmt.edu (Eric A. Hobbs) writes: > >Is it advisable to use Twister format with a 10 sec/track disk? >Has anyone had any problems? > I've been using 82 tracks/10 sectors twisted for the three years I've owned an ST. Haven't had any problems. DCMAXTRK, a PD utility by DoubleClick to determine the maximum number of tracks your drive can read and write to, says that I can go to 84 on my ST. Anyone know if it would be safe to go to 83 tracks/10 sectors twisted with this drive? I am also aware these disks may not work on another drive. >Also, what is the correct RPM for a SS/DD disk drive? Can you adjust it >easily? > I think SS and DS disks both go at 300rpm. To adjust it, I've heard that there's a small pot you can rotate. >I have been having bad sector problems with my disks (And I use good >quality disks, too.). > When I first got my ST, I bought Sonys and Maxells. Now, I only buy generic disks from MEI. -- Ed Krimen ............................................... ||| Video Production Major, California State University, Chico ||| INTERNET: ekrimen@ecst.csuchico.edu FREENET: al661 / | \ SysOp, Fuji BBS: 916-894-1261 FIDONET: 1:119/4.0 ------------------------------ Date: 25 Apr 91 01:55:09 GMT From: arizona.edu!cerritos.edu!nic.csu.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken!aunro!er sys!ggranger@arizona.edu (Greg Granger) Subject: Driver needed To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I am posting this msg for a friend of mine. He has asked me if anybody has a driver for a Korg M1 to work with Music Studio for the Atari ST (since this is a X-post into r.a.s). Any help would be greatly appreciated, as he is very desperate to find a driver for his M1. I may need it in time, as I know of somebody that has one. Greg Granger | INet: ersys!ggranger@nro.cs.athabascau.ca | | Fnet: Greg Granger (Node 532) Dark Knight (Node 595)| | Post: 5906-188 Street Edmonton, AB Canada T6M-2A9 | | Tele: +1 403 481-0803 OR +1 403 481-5110 | Greg Granger ersys!ggranger@nro.cs.athabascau.ca Edmonton Remote Systems: Serving Northern Alberta since 1982 ------------------------------ Date: 25 Apr 91 05:44:05 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!rpi!uupsi!njin!njitgw.njit.edu!tesla.njit.edu! fer9483@arizona.edu Subject: For Sale To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu For Sale: ---------------------------------------------- Atari 520 ST w/DS (external) drive. Atari Color Monitor Atari sh204 20 meg hard drive Price: $550 Leave EMAIL, I don't read this newsgroup. If you like, make an offer. It's not my system, its a friends so I will relay the offers to him. ALso 2 books: Atari St Internals : $5 Atari St:TOS : $5 Thanks, Frank ------------------------------ Date: 25 Apr 91 04:30:44 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!think.com!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!thunder .mcrcim.mcgill.edu!quiche!davidd@arizona.edu (David D'ANDREA) Subject: Gnustuff To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I was looking for the gcc compiler that some people had mentioned, and I noticed that there was piles of stuff in the "gnustuff" directory at atari archive. Is there any file giving a summary of all the gnu files available, or will I have to guess based on keywords in the Index file? Actually, I would be happy if someone just mailed me a list of files I need for the compiler to work. Also, as I was browsing in the gnu directory, I was pleased to find a copy of Jove. I downloaded it, was somewhat surprised that it had no documentation with it, and was disappointed when I found out that it seems to not work with large files (it gave me a "cannot create temporary file" message, and only part of the file was there in the editor). This happened with two files I tried, both around 40k; it worked fine with smaller (10k and less) files. Does anyone have a working copy of Jove? Perhaps there's something in my setup that it doesn't like (1 meg 1040 ST, Tos 1.0)? If Jove really is bugged, could someone suggest another good pd text editor? David D'Andrea ------------------------------ Date: 25 Apr 91 01:27:32 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!simvax.labmed .umn.edu!davidli@arizona.edu Subject: Gnustuff To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Apr25.043044.10046@cs.mcgill.ca>, davidd@cs.mcgill.ca (David D'ANDREA) writes: > > I was looking for the gcc compiler that some people had mentioned, > and I noticed that there was piles of stuff in the "gnustuff" directory at > atari archive. Is there any file giving a summary of all the gnu files > available, or will I have to guess based on keywords in the Index file? > Actually, I would be happy if someone just mailed me a list of > files I need for the compiler to work. I just spent a bit of time putting the gcc compiler on my hard drive. I tested it using the good old reliable 'hello.c' program. Here are the notes I made with regard to installation: Files used: GCC139B.LZH (current file on atari.archive has a corrupt GCC-CC1.TTP) GCC139UP.LZH (may no longer be present, but it's where I got GCC-CC1.TTP) MNTOLB8.ZOO (you -might- want to use it with MINT, so why not?) MNTINC8.ZOO (ditto) 1. Extract all files EXCEPT 'gcc-cc1.ttp' from GCC139B.LZH (the file is corrupted in the current version on atari.archive). Place the files in \EXEC and set the environmental variable GCCEXEC to point to the directory. 2. Extract 'gcc-cc1.ttp' from GCC139UP.LZH and place the file into \EXEC. 3. Extract all files from MNTOLB8.ZOO. Place the files in \LIB and set the environmental variable GNULIB to point to the directory. 4. Extract all files from MNTINC8.ZOO (including subdirectories!). Place the files in \INCLUDE and set the environmental variable GNUINC to point to the directory. Add the following aliases to your CLI's autoexec file. The following lines come from a slightly modified 'gnu.g' which came with my release of the Gulam shell. Check your CLI docs for differences in how environmental variables, etc. are set! gnu.g ----- cut here ------ unalias cc unsetenv TEMP # # set up commands for gcc and gas # alias cpp d:\exec\gcc-cpp setenv cpp d:\exec\gcc-cpp.ttp alias cc1 d:\exec\gcc-cc1 setenv cc1 d:\exec\gcc-cc1.ttp alias gas d:\exec\gcc-as setenv gas d:\exec\gcc-as.ttp alias as d:\exec\gcc-as setenv as d:\exec\gcc-as.ttp alias link d:\exec\link setenv link d:\exec\link.ttp alias ar d:\exec\gcc-ar setenv ar d:\exec\gcc-ar.ttp alias ld d:\exec\gcc-ld setenv ld d:\exec\gcc-ld.ttp alias gcc d:\exec\gcc setenv gcc d:\exec\gcc.ttp # alias cc d:\exec\gcc setenv cc d:\exec\gcc.ttp alias xcc d:\exec\gcc -Bd:\exec\x setenv xcc d:\exec\gcc.ttp -Bd:\exec\x # alias make d:\util\xmake.ttp setenv make d:\util\xmake.ttp # # bison... # alias bison d:\bison\bison.ttp setenv bison d:\bison\bison.ttp setenv BISON_SIMPLE d:\bison\bison.sim setenv BISON_HAIRY d:\bison\bison.hai # # # nm # alias nm d:\util\nm.ttp # # Flex # alias flex d:\flex\flex.ttp setenv flex d:\flex\flex.ttp setenv FLEX_DEF d:\flex\flexdef.skl setenv FLEX_FAST d:\flex\flexfast.skl # # General # setenv GNULIB d:\lib setenv GCCEXEC d:\exec\gcc- setenv GNUINC d:\include setenv TEMP g: ------ cut here -------- OTHER FILES YOU MIGHT WANT/NEED: FLEX.ZOO - lexical analyzer BISON.ZOO (where is this on atari.archive?!?) DOCUMENTATION.ZOO - some nice-to-have documents in TeX format DIFF115.LZH - can handle binary files as well as ASCII files RCS5AP1B.LZH and RCS5AP1M.LZH - Revision Control System GULAM.ARC - one of many CLIs which will work with gcc Like I said, I successfully compiled a program using the above procedure (and I didn't have bison or flex or the documentation or RCS or diff...) so it is the minimum you need to do to get going. If anyone has corrections, additions, suggestions about these directions, please send me e-mail so I can incorporate them into the next 'welcome to comp.sys.atari.st' ... I'll be working on minimal TeX / LaTeX instructions next. -- David Paschall-Zimbel davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu ------------------------------ Date: 25 Apr 91 04:11:10 GMT From: noao!ncar!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!wats erv1!watmath!ljdickey@arizona.edu (L.J.Dickey) Subject: HD identification (Was: Megafile 60 noisy startup/ shutdown To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Apr22.153323.16506@informatik.uni-erlangen.de> csbrod@immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Claus Brod) writes: > >If the drive used in your MF60 is a Seagate ST277R, you don't need >the ship program anymore. The ST238R used in the Megafile 30 doesn't >autopark. You can find out the exact type of the drive used by >looking at the back of the Megafile 30 which should bear a label >with 'SEA6065' or something like that if it is a Seagate drive. You can also use the program "ratehd.prg". This is supplied by the folks at ICD, and may be obtained at "atari.archive.umich.edu". -- Prof L.J. Dickey, Faculty of Mathematics, U of Waterloo, Canada N2L 3G1 Internet: ljdickey@watmath.waterloo.edu UUCP: ljdickey@watmath.UUCP ..!uunet!watmath!ljdickey X.400: ljdickey@watmath.UWaterloo.ca ------------------------------ Date: 25 Apr 91 02:25:27 GMT From: arizona.edu!cerritos.edu!nic.csu.net!usc!samsung!umich!vela!swood@arizona.edu ( EVENSONG) Subject: How many books come with DBMan 5.01 To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Just got a used version of DBMan, and I have this feeling that I am missing something. Or are the books actually that vague on the subject of programming? I got two books. Reference manual, and Supplemental Manual for TOS swood -- ---- Insert favorite .signature here ---- | swood@argo.acs.oakland.edu | swood@vela.acs.oakland.edu Bitnet: swood@Oakland | swood@unix.secs.oakland.edu UUCP: ...!uunet!umich!{vela, argo, unix, nucleus}!swood ------------------------------ Date: 25 Apr 91 12:07:10 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!apple!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!ysub!psuvm!dbn gmd13!dmswwu1c!onm07@arizona.edu (Julian F. Reschke) Subject: KAOS TOS 1.4 To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu First of all: who said that KAOS 1.4.2 is so much better than TOS 1.04? BTW: KAOS 1.4.2 is copyrighted and costs 69.- DM. Besides, it needs the original GERMAN TOS 1.04 ROM set to produce the EPROM files. ------------------------------ Date: 25 Apr 91 07:40:58 GMT From: munnari.oz.au!brolga!uqcspe!cs.uq.oz.au!warwick@uunet.uu.net (Warwick Allison) Subject: METAFILE (Graphics) editor - Where can I get one? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I am after a Metafile editor, or any info about the file format. Why? Because Page Stream can import Metafiles, and I'm hoping this will allow for outline graphics within Page Stream (which supports such graphics, but not real well). If someone can tell me more about Metafiles (I have NO IDEA at all!), then I'd gladly write up a little editor. Anyone? Warwick. -- _-_|\ warwick@cs.uq.oz.au / * <-- Computer Science Department, \_.-._/ University of Queensland, v Brisbane, AUSTRALIA. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Apr 91 09:53 N From: Subject: next release of mupfel To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Craig Fisher asked: >Anyone else out there suffering from file-completion-withdrawal-symptoms? Yes.... Actually I did try Mupfel, and decided to prefer gulam because I kept hitting the insert button... Chris Evelo ============================================================== Dept. of Occup. & Chris Evelo Environm. Health MFAGKCHR@HMARL5 (BITNET) and Toxicology. University of Limburg Tel: 31-43-888635 P.O. Box 616 Fax: 31-43-436080 6200 MD Maastricht The Netherlands ============================================================== ------------------------------ Date: 25 Apr 91 05:04:27 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu !utgpu!watserv1!watmath!ljdickey@arizona.edu (L.J.Dickey) Subject: Nroff for the ST? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu You will find it at Atari.Archive.UMich.edu -- Prof L.J. Dickey, Faculty of Mathematics, U of Waterloo, Canada N2L 3G1 Internet: ljdickey@watmath.waterloo.edu UUCP: ljdickey@watmath.UUCP ..!uunet!watmath!ljdickey X.400: ljdickey@watmath.UWaterloo.ca ------------------------------ Date: 25 Apr 91 12:07:19 GMT From: noao!ncar!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!olivea!apple!agate!usenet.ins.cwru. edu!ysub!psuvm!dbngmd13!dmswwu1c!onm07@arizona.edu (Julian F. Reschke) Subject: Okami Shell - NOT with VI, NO ARGV/xARG support! To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article , wolfram@cip-s08.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (Wolfram Roesler) says: > >warwick@cs.uq.oz.au (Warwick Allison) writes: > >>It seems the Okami shell, while supporting: >[...] >>Does NOT support ARGV and xARG parameters! > >>Please, would the Author of Okami add this, >Ok, will be done in one of the future versions. >If you have sources ready, mail me, this could speed things up. >CU >Okami-san The ARGV-documentation has been posted many times here, and you can find it in the GEMINI distribution. ------------------------------ Date: 25 Apr 91 06:52:39 GMT From: sdfvm1.vnet.ibm.com!cae@ucbvax.berkeley.edu ("Cornelius Caesar") Subject: Pari (68 lines) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu References: <1991Apr24.021129.3728@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> dennis@carol.math.binghamton.edu (dennis pixton) writes: > Has the number theory package Pari been ported to the ST? Here is the (shortened) output from the 'archie' mail server about pari. (I did this search just before reading your message!) pari-st.zoo leads to the impression of it been ported, doesn't it? I haven't checked it. Cornelius cae@sdfvm1.vnet.ibm.com ----------- cut here --------------- Date: Wed, 24 Apr 91 06:06:39 EDT From: archie@cs.mcgill.ca Subject: archie reply: prog pari- Mail-only users may access anonymous ftp by mail through an ftp-mail server. Send the word 'help' in a message to bitftp@pucc.princeton.edu or ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com for information on how to use it. Search request for 'pari-' Host aixpsb.rrz.uni-koeln.de (134.95.128.215) Last updated 21:28 29 Mar 1991 Location: /programming FILE rw-r--r-- 620209 Mar 15 21:13 pari-1.35a.tar.Z Host forwiss.uni-passau.de (132.231.1.10) Last updated 17:02 2 Apr 1991 Location: /pub/atari/sbsvax/gcc/Libraries FILE rw-r--r-- 4076 Dec 25 17:38 pari-1.34.tar.lst FILE rw-r--r-- 1005 Dec 25 17:34 pari-1-34-doc.lst FILE rw-r--r-- 100514 Dec 25 17:35 pari-1-34-doc.zoo FILE rw-r--r-- 483257 Dec 25 17:38 pari-1.34.tar.Z FILE rw-r--r-- 9073 Dec 25 17:38 pari-st.zoo FILE rw-r--r-- 367 Dec 25 17:38 pari-st.lst Host math.ucla.edu (128.97.64.16) Last updated 05:01 6 Apr 1991 Location: /pub/pari FILE r--r--r-- 620209 Mar 12 08:56 pari-1.35a.tar.Z FILE r--r--r-- 2060 Oct 23 13:45 pari-mac.README FILE r--r--r-- 19664 Mar 12 08:56 pari-NeXT.tar.Z FILE r--r--r-- 683969 Oct 23 13:44 pari-1.34.cpt.hqx Host nuri.inria.fr (128.93.1.26) Last updated 05:23 9 Apr 1991 Location: /lang FILE rw-rw-r-- 617099 Mar 26 14:35 pari-1.35b.tar.Z Host uvax.rrz.uni-koeln.de (134.95.130.211) Last updated 09:47 30 Mar 1991 Location: /pub/programming FILE rw-rw-r-- 483257 Nov 6 21:37 pari-1.34.tar.Z Host vax.ph-cip.uni-koeln.de (134.95.64.1) Last updated 05:23 21 Apr 1991 Location: /atari/math_stat FILE rw-rw-r-- 100462 Oct 15 1990 pari-gp-man.zoo Location: /atari/gnu/cs.uni-sb.de/gcc/Libraries FILE rw-rw-r-- 9073 Nov 2 19:09 pari-st.zoo ----------- cut again -------------- ------------------------------ Date: 25 Apr 91 06:10:15 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!apple!uokmax!kllove@arizona.edu (Kenneth L Love) Subject: ST Basic To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I need an OLDER version of ST Basic than what came with my Mega 2 about two years ago. Where can I get it? 'atari.archive'? Thanks, Kenneth Love PS: Please use e-mail for replies. ------------------------------ Date: 25 Apr 91 07:48:20 GMT From: munnari.oz.au!uhccux!uhunix1.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu@uunet.uu.net (Jack W. Wine) Subject: TEAC SCSI floppy summary To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Thanks very much for all the comments and suggestions. This summary is posted now because there are questions about the ASCI/SCSI protocols and TOS and Amiga OS that would be better handled by this newsgroup. Some people may be happy with the following price schedule obtained from a TEAC distributor in Anaheim, CA, J.D. Hannam [(714) 632-3458]: -------------------------------------------------- | 2.88MB 3.5" SCSI | 1.44MB 3.5" SCSI quantity | (FD-235JS-501) | (FD-235HS) -------------------------------------------------- 1 $192 $157 2-10 $185 $151 50 $180 $147 100 $176 $144 -------------------------------------------------- The single quantity prices are low enough so that a group purchase is not necessary. The salesperson, Tim, at J.D. Hannam, also said that they have only about 10 drives in stock and another shipment is expected in the third week of May. They also have a pickup window, so you can fetch your drive immediately. Price quotes from Western Micro [(619) 453-8430] are about $30 higher in all categories. There is an East Coast TEAC distributor, Krystal, with phone number (212) 385-1900. Most people might want to wait until some interfacing problems are resolved. The following things are required to operate the SCSI floppies: 1) SCSI adaptor (ICD is popular and 2) SCSI floppy driver and formatting software (NOT YET AVAILABLE) A powered case and SCSI cable are also required, although many people want to install the drive internally in a ST or PC tower case and use it as their "A" (but actually "C") drive, if possible. Hopefully, anyone knowledgeable about the ST TOS and ASCI-SCSI protocols will offer us help. The basic question is whether anyone is willing to write the driver and formatter programs. Another concerns the procedure TOS performs at bootup. Will TOS interrogate the SCSI floppy and obtain its parameters? If so, then will it be able to boot up as a "C" drive with a formatted disk? Is a driver program needed at all, if the previous two questions are af- firmative? Regarding the practicality of a 2.88MB drive: It seems that people have widely differing opinions on the SCSI floppies and the reactions range from "great" to one in the followup post: "crazy." :D Comparisons were often made between other drives with removeable media, such as the Syquest and the expected Insite Floptical, both of which are faster and have higher storage. The Syquest ( with reliability as well as costlier disks ( not be in full production until August (although Arrow Electronics is plan- ning to sell the bare drive in June for $490, as well as an evaluation kit which includes a drive, single disk, utility software, OEM and programmer's manual, and mounting hardware for $685). The floptical disks, which hold about 21MB of data, will supposedly sell in the range of $20-25. The range of reactions seem to stem from the fact that the 2.88MB floppy is an interim technology, so that people with fast, hard drives will see it one way, while people using 720K or low capacity hard drives will appreciate it more. For people who prefer other manufacturers (Sony and Toshiba have indicated that they do not make embedded-SCSI floppies): Chinon (213) 533-0274 Citizen (213) 453-0614 Epson (213) 534-4500 Mitsubishi (213) 515-3993 Panasonic (408) 262-2200 Sony (408) 432-0190 Toshiba (714) 583-3000 YE Data (404) 446-8655 The following is a list of 4MB ED (Extra-high Density) disk distributors: Azerty 800 888-8080 Digi. Stor. 800 232-DISK Intec (317) 290-0500 Neamco 800 225-2478 Thanks again to everyone for the information, which is believed to be accu- rate, but any correction and verification is welcomed. ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ******************************