Info-Atari16 Digest Mon, 15 Apr 91 Volume 91 : Issue 212 Today's Topics: BBS Programs (3 msgs) G-Print demo available on atari.archive (and GEnie) GFA Basic 3.5? ghostscript, dvips on ST Graphics on the STE - v. generally speaking... Mac Rom availability Mega Ste and Clab's notator? Posting Z*net International Posting Z*Net International 3rd request! (3 msgs) Re: Z*Net International smail on Atari ST Z*Net and ST Report availability Z*Net email reply Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU. Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored. If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please contact the redistributor, not us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 15 Apr 91 02:41:49 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com! mintaka!spdcc!tauxersvilli!alphalpha!nazgul@arizona.edu (Kee Hinckley) Subject: BBS Programs To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article root@prk.UUCP (Phillip Keen) writes: >I am in the process of getting either an Atari 8-bit, an Atari ST, or an Apple >// system to run my BBS on. I have decided to go this route rather than >upgrading for it is much cheaper. However, I do realize the consequences of Without question the best BBS I have ever seen - on any system, is Morgan Davis' ProLine system for the Apple II. I run it on a IIe suped up with an 8mhz zip chip. It runs for weeks sometime without my paying any attention to it. It supports Usenet newsfeeds and outside email connections, the software upgrades arrive electronicly via remote copies, the code is almost all in AppleSoft basic, which makes bug fixes and additiions relatively straightforward. And to top it off the environment includes a large portion of Unix-style commands and a cshell subset. You can get more info from mdavis@pro-sol.cts.com (...crash!pnet01!pro-sol!mdavis). -- Alfalfa Software, Inc. | Poste: The EMail for Unix nazgul@alfalfa.com | Send Anything... Anywhere 617/646-7703 (voice/fax) | info@alfalfa.com I'm not sure which upsets me more: that people are so unwilling to accept responsibility for their own actions, or that they are so eager to regulate everyone else's. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Apr 91 22:02:21 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!wciu!abode!scale@arizona.e du (Luis Outumuro) Subject: BBS Programs To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Hi Phillip, About running your own BBS. It can be a real pain in the axx (well... you know!); while occassionally it also has it's rewards. To "do it right", you will need a few basics; a computer just for the BBS (not one that you "share" with the BBS part-time), a hard drive and a 2400 bps modem (any slower a modem, and many users won't even call!). Any of the three computers you mentioned (an Atari 800XL/130XE, Atari ST or an Apple IIx) would work great for running a BBS. Which one to use really depends on if you have a spare one of these lying around unused, or can acquire for the least amount of money, or have a preference for a specific BBS software. Look around, the style of BBS YOU like and which computer you can afford to setup, will be factors. As for the Atari 8-Bits, there are really only two realistic choices for BBS software; BBS Express Professional and Carina II (2.5). Both the SysOp's of CII and Pro love to flame each other over which one is better, but both are excellent systems as each as both advantages and disadvantages. Both CII and Pro have networking, capable message editors and U/D sections. Also online games and databases. No matter what anyone tells you (gee... does this include me? :~) ), niether one is "better" than the other. Now of course, I have my personal preference; but then I have been running CII for three years now (was that subtle or what?!). For CII "looks & feels" the way I want my BBS to "look & feel". It is written in BASIC, so I can modify (easily!) to my heart's content; both BASIC and SpartaDOS are available remotely so I modify from anywhere while I am out of town. In three years CII has never crashed (although the MIO did go POP during a heat wave!), CII can be safely called "bullet-proof". Pro has many of these features too, although I am not as knowledgable about Pro as I am about CII. Hopefully someone here on the net is a Pro SysOp and can give you (and all of us) more insight into the workings of BBS Express Professional. I hope this helps, bye............. Luis -- """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Luis Mark Outumuro III | "Well... you're damned if you do, Computer Office Products 818/813-1051 | and you're damned if you don't!" Infoline 818/813-1053 | - Bart Simpson, 1990... ------------------------------ Date: 15 Apr 91 23:59:29 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!apple!agate !darkstar!ucscb.UCSC.EDU!unknown@arizona.edu (The Unknown User) Subject: BBS Programs To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Apr15.024149.24710@alphalpha.com> nazgul@alphalpha.com (Kee Hinckley) writes: >Without question the best BBS I have ever seen - on any system, is >Morgan Davis' ProLine system for the Apple II. I run it on a IIe I've never seen ProLine, so I can't comment on it, but I really think GBBS is a really good BBS system from using it. (And I've read a lot of the info on it because I was going to write a full-screen editor for one but unfortunately there are no arrays in the language it uses) I've pretty much gotten out of the microcomputer BBSes though, except for getting new programs.. UNIX, cshell, the Internet and UseNet just seem to be a new dimension in modemming... non-networked (or minimally networked) BBSes just seem so "small." Yeah, I realize ProLine can get a UseNet feed. A pretty neat BBS for MSDOS systems (and it runs under UNIX too) is waffle. If anyone's interested in an Apple II version of it, send mail to root@darkside.com I've wanted to port that program for a long time or have them port it as it's pretty good (they won't let me port it, but maybe sufficient outside interest will help it happen). -- /unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu Apple IIGS Forever! WANT ULTIMA VI //e or GS?-mail me.\ \CHEAP CDs info-mail me. McIntosh Junior: The Power to Crush the Other Kids. / ------------------------------ Date: 15 Apr 91 20:37:45 GMT From: oahu.cs.ucla.edu!stephen@locus.ucla.edu (Steve Whitney) Subject: G-Print demo available on atari.archive (and GEnie) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I've uploaded two new demos of G-Print to atari.archive so I'm going to repost the program's description below. You won't see this again unless I post a new version. gprnt_dmo.arc is a demonstration version of G-Print which can print to let you see the quality of G-Print's output. It prints "G-Print demo" on each page of output. This demo requires that you already` have GDOS (or G+Plus) and a printer driver with fonts. gprnt_ox.arc is the G-Print "option explorer." It lets you try out G-Print's functions without having a copy of GDOS with drivers and fonts. The option explorer won't print, but it will display a snapshot of a G-Print screen preview with screen fonts loaded. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Changes from version 1.02: Mostly small bug fixes. Problems with title pages using multiple columns, custom spacing, and page borders, and landscape printing have been fixed. Command keys for the "Special" menu options have been added. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The demos are available on atari.archive in the Here's the announcement: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Announcing G-Print, the GEM-based print formatting program for the Atari ST. G-Print, which is now shipping, reads files from ST Writer, Word Writer ST, 1st Word, and 1st Word Plus as well as straight ASCII files. It then prints them with a variety of formatting options using GDOS printer drivers and fonts. Here are _some_ of the things G-Print can do: * multiple columns * multiple fonts * landscape format print * title pages * rules and borders * saved configuration files * run word processor * screen preview * "booklet" print * microspace justification Landscape print allows you to print spreadsheets with much more than 80 columns. Even prints on legal size paper in landscape mode. G-Print also has the unique ability to remap special text effects so that light print, say, can be printed as outlined or in a special font. In its fully functional distribution, G-Print provides GDOS and an easy to use installer program, but a demo version which requires GDOS and a printer driver with fonts is available on atari.archive in the newitems directory under gprntdmo.arc. A non-printing demo which doesn't need GDOS is under gprnt_ox.arc. G-Print is available for US$27 + $2 S/H For more information, send me e-mail at stephen@cs.ucle.edu or contact MacDonald Associates Publishers 909 NW Starlite Place Grants Pass, OR 97526 USA orders: (800) 800-2563 info: (503) 476-0071 -- Steve Whitney "It's never _really_ the last minute" (())_-_(()) UCLA Comp. Sci. Grad. Student | (* *) | Internet: stephen@cs.ucla.edu UCLA Bruin--> GEnie: S.WHITNEY `-----' ------------------------------ Date: 15 Apr 91 23:01:58 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio -state.edu!ohstpy!miavx1!rlcollins@arizona.edu (Ryan 'Gozar' Collins) Subject: GFA Basic 3.5? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Ok, I just got done reading the newest Z*nets, and I have a question. When was GFA Basic 3.5 released? I saw they have an update to it for the TT to ver 3.6. I bought 3.02 and the compiler a year and a half ago, and I haven't heard a thing from them. (I heard Antic is now in charge of it.) So what should I do about upgrading? Should I try to contact Antic and find out whats going on? Any ideas? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ryan 'Gozar' Collins Question for MAC Users: rlcollins@miavx1.BITNET |||| Power Without What IS the format of a rc1dsanu@miamiu.BITNET / || \ The Price!! MAC HFS floppy disk? R.COLLINS1 on GEnie ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: 15 Apr 91 21:21:32 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu !timothyg@arizona.edu (Timothy Gallivan) Subject: ghostscript, dvips on ST To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Hi, This is my third attempt to post this info. I'll get it right one day. I have a partial port of ghostscript (GNU project's postscript interpreter) running on the ST. I know of one small bug, but as soon as I get gdb working, I hope to exterminate it. I currently have only the HP DeskJet driver working, but I think (hope) it will be simple to install any of the other drivers distributed with ghostscript (i.e. epson). I am soliciting any information (about the atari and ghostscript) which might help me to write a screen driver for the ST. I am not very familiar with ST hardware, TOS, GEM, or the ghostscript device interface, so that is a tall order. Perhaps someone will volunteer to write it for me (wishful thinking). Is it possible to have a GEM screen driver for a non-GEM program? Can I hack one of the MSDOS VGA drivers? I also have dvips running on the ST. Dvips converts TeX .dvi files to postscript files. It supports the use of TeX 'special' commands to include postscript graphics in TeX/LaTeX documents. The TeX/dvips/ghostscript combination can be very powerful. I can post these programs (as they are) if anyone is interested and is willing to give me instructions for how to post executables. Thanks, Tim Gallivan timothyg@ncsa.uiuc.edu ------------------------------ Date: 15 Apr 91 14:01:05 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!mintaka!bl oom-beacon!eru!kth.se!sunic!mcsun!unido!ipsi!wallmann@arizona.edu (Georg Wallmann) Subject: Graphics on the STE - v. generally speaking... To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu This comes a little late but... [In resonse to H.CHus Color graphics board] I've been thinking about the same thing too, but my calculations always came up with "too expensive". Of course if you think 16 MB isn't expensive ... as you do in your post. While thinking about it I had this great idea for a new RAM technology, which unfortunately (then unbeknownst to me) already existed as dual-port RAM. Even then the bus width needed and the cycle speed is just about too ridicolous for a home computer. Personally I'd be happy with 640*400*16bit colors at 70Hz and some hires in mono. That would be monetarily feasible, I only want color for the games anyway, and some hires for programming. I as a lowly long-time Atari customer, would indeed be already happy over some _small_ improvements. How about Player/Missile Graphics for at least the *&~% mouse cursor, I can not believe that in the nineties we still got to erase the cursor, draw something, turn it on again, erase the cursor draw something , turn it on again (*) Not neccessarily Atari specific: Floating point is done in hardware (What %age of the user crowd actually uses floating points (me NEVER!!) ?), but the stuff you'd really need is done in software (probably in compiled Alcyon C to boot) Programs like EZ-draw would definetely profit from a hardwired draw routine for example. How about a microprogrammable stupid CPU, that you'd just give instructions like FOR(;;) ;; this is some mix between IF IRQ pending ;; english, basic, lisp C and ML GRAB BYTE from PORT0 ;; lisp for the comments that is STUFF it into BUFFER at $XXXX ;; har har IF BUFFERP == full signal IRQ LEVEL 2 CLRIRQ END That's basically perfect for sound processing, non DMA I/O processing and maybe even so stupid tasks as memory initializing. And the 'real' CPU with it's overkill of registers and cache and what have you needn't worry about those bothersome context switches for every *%~$ little interrupt. Why is everyone so hung up about processor speed ? Sure it's nice that the compiler does it in 5 minute, if it used to grind for 15 minutes but chances are that a faster harddisk might be just as profitable in terms of speed. How often do you compile, aren't you 90% of the time just typing stuff into an editor ?? Personally I am quite happy even with a lowly 68000 @ 8Mhz. Yes you speed demons it's allrite for me, IF the rest of the hardware would do the job, I think a CPU shouldn't do like graphics, I/O and sound!! My guess it that there just aren't enough competant people in hardware R&D (anywhere for that matter) to do the job. So they put in a faster CPU and delegate the rest to a cheesy graphics card, which virtually does nothing except converting RAM to colored dots.(the one Intel or TI chip I heard about maybe an exception, but probably not). Ok this does not neccessarily apply to machines in scientific environments, where one shittily written application is layered on top of another (probably in some local LISP dialect) until the processor croaks. About every two years it gets to me and I write an article like that, that's maybe because I would like to buy a computer and don't see anything I'd like to buy. (Well that ST Notebook sounds tempting, got yet to see one though...) thanks to the readers of comp.sys.atari.st for taking it with some humor and letting the old man ramble on a bit. bye y'all Nat! (*)Probably the Amiga does that right ------------------------------ Date: 15 Apr 91 21:55:44 GMT From: fs7.ece.cmu.edu!o.gp.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!mc4c+@sei.cmu.edu (Mark Choi) Subject: Mac Rom availability To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I think the $25 ROM amount is the cost of handling, and I bet you have to be an authorized mac repair center, or at least have an Apple medallion. ------------------------------ Date: 15 Apr 91 20:36:37 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!cs.uoregon.edu!ns.uoregon.edu!milton! alexd@arizona.edu (Alex Danilchik) Subject: Mega Ste and Clab's notator? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <2699@prles2.prl.philips.nl> johnj@knor.UUCP (John Janssen) writes: >In article <670918973.3@egsgate.FidoNet.Org> Shervin.Shahrebani.Of.250/744@f744.n250.z1.FidoNet.Org (Shervin Shahrebani Of 250/744) writes: >>I can tell you this much, Notator 3.0 works great with the new Mega STE. >> >>S.S. > > Mikail at C-LAB says you see about a 20% increase in speed with a MegaSTe.. less than what one would hope.. due to the fact that you have to disable the cache to run NOTATOR.. once you do that .. the MegaSTe doesn't seem to do much better than the 8 mhz ST's... i am told. cheers! gunnar alexd@milton.u.washington.edu ------------------------------ Date: 16 Apr 91 07:20:35 GMT From: comp.vuw.ac.nz!am.dsir.govt.nz!marcamd!mercury!kcbbs!kc@uunet.uu.net (Jon Clarke) Subject: Posting Z*net International To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu This is request number two for those wanting Z*net International posted to this news group. Please email jon_Clarke@kcbbs.gen.nz ------------ Voting so far ------------ For posting Against posting 42 3 ------------------------------ Date: 16 Apr 91 07:24:27 GMT From: comp.vuw.ac.nz!am.dsir.govt.nz!marcamd!mercury!kcbbs!kc@uunet.uu.net (Jon Clarke) Subject: Posting Z*Net International 3rd request! To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu This is the third and final request for those wishing Z*Net International to this news group comp.sys.atari.st. Votes will close Monday the 22nd of April 1991. We require a majority vote for the posting. Please send email to Jon_Clarke@kcbbs.gen.nz or reply direct to this newsgroup. Jon_Clarke@kcbbs.gen.nz Z*net International On-line Magazine (NZ) ------------------------------ Date: 15 Apr 91 21:02:41 GMT From: ccncsu!boulder!sytang@purdue.edu (Shoou-yu Tang) Subject: Posting Z*Net International 3rd request! To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Isn't each issuse of znet more than 10KB or so in size? Wouldn't it waste a lot of banwidth to send it all over the world? Atari.archive.umich.edu has archives of znet under the magazines/znet, would that be more efficent way? Also there is a mailing list for individual want to receive it when greg got it, thats how I got mine and probably how atari.archive got it too. I'll check for the mailing list address and post it, or maybe Greg is watching can post it . Tang sytang@lamar.colostate.edu ------------------------------ Date: 16 Apr 91 01:18:10 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!samsung!umich!terminator!terminator.cc.umich.e du!weiner@arizona.edu (Jeff Weiner) Subject: Posting Z*Net International 3rd request! To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Apr16.072427.7672@kcbbs.gen.nz> Jon_Clarke@kcbbs.gen.nz (Jon Clarke) writes: > > This is the third and final request for those wishing Z*Net International >to this news group comp.sys.atari.st. Votes will close Monday the 22nd >of April 1991. I'd like everyone to know that all issues of znet are archived on atari.archive.umich.edu. They are available by mail-service and anonymous ftp. There is little need to post a 60-70K article every week. This is not a flame, Jon knows my position on this matter. I'd just like everyone to be aware of the above fact. > > We require a majority vote for the posting. Please send email to > Jon_Clarke@kcbbs.gen.nz or reply direct to this newsgroup. > > Jon_Clarke@kcbbs.gen.nz Z*net International On-line Magazine (NZ) weiner -- Jeff Weiner weiner@terminator.cc.umich.edu Jeff_Weiner@ub.cc.umich.edu Mail Dennis_Devine@ub.cc.umich.edu and ask if he'd like to be the pope Atari.archive.umich.edu Caretaker||194M and climbin'|| "So like take off eh?" ------------------------------ Date: 15 Apr 91 19:44:11 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wuarchive!udel!h aven!uvaarpa!murdoch!astsun.astro.Virginia.EDU!gl8f@arizona.edu (Greg Lindahl) Subject: Re: Z*Net International To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Apr15.160358.21355@oz.plymouth.edu> pyr579@oz.plymouth.edu (Technoid) writes: >Hey, > > I used to get ZNET from irisa.irisa.fr, but they haven't had a new issue in about a month and I was looking for a new site to find it at. Anyone >know where to look for Late March and April? Z*Net is available via email -- send mail to stzmagazine-request@virginia.edu. Amzing how many people don't read the frequently asked questions list... ------------------------------ Date: 14 Apr 91 07:13:06 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!van-bc!ubc-cs!al berta!ncc!isagate!darius@arizona.edu (Darius S. Naqvi) Subject: smail on Atari ST To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article steve@thelake.mn.org (Steve Yelvington) writes: >[In article <1991Apr09.184253.5423@edm.isac.CA>, > darius@edm.isac.CA (Darius S. Naqvi) writes ... ] > >> Is this the Smail that we all know and love that runs on UNIX boxes, >> i.e. the mail delivery agent? If it is, then it's covered by the GNU >> copyleft, so any version should be freely distributable. > >The program is Smail 2.5, originally by Christopher Seiwald. It accepts >data from standard input, processes the headers as necessary, looks up a >mailpath, and pipes the result to either a local delivery agent (lmail) or >to uux for execution of rmail on a remote machine. > >The Smail source code that I have bears neither copyright nor copyleft. >Smail 3.x, which is a different program entirely, may be covered by the >GNU agreement. I don't know. > Information in the files README-3.1.19 and COPYING from the distribution for smail 3.1.19 names Landon Curt Noll and Ronald S. Karr as the authors, and places it under the GNU General Public License, which more or less says that all versions based on this version are free and must be distributed with source code, with no charge other than a nominal charge for making copies. (This is what I was talking about when I mentioned the ``GNU Copyleft''.) Possibly what happened is that the above two people took smail 2.5 (or some other version) and modified it a lot, and then placed the whole thing under the Gnu Copyleft. > >> I'd be interested in using this as the mail delivery agent when >> running MINIX, as soon as I get UUCP for MINIX working properly. > >I think that for Minix you should compile the standard Unix Smail. > Assuming that my guess above is correct, that would be a good idea. I like smail 3.1.19, but it would probably take up too many resources for minix (i.e., ram, disk space, cpu cycles). If smail 2.5 is more or less the same thing with fewer features (hence smaller, less cpu intensive, etc.) it would be worth a try. The only problem is that I assume that any archive sites with UNIX smail will have the latest 3.x version. Where could I get the standard UNIX smail v2.5, i.e., the version that was modified for TOS *minus* all the modifications? >---- > Steve Yelvington / P. O. Box 38 / Marine on St. Croix, MN 55047 USA > INTERNET: steve@thelake.mn.org UUCP: plains!umn-cs!thelake!steve > GEnie: S.YELVINGTO2 Delphi: YELVINGTON -- Darius S. Naqvi mail:darius@edm.isac.ca ISA Corp. uucp: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada phone:(403) 420-8081 ------------------------------ Date: 15 Apr 91 19:46:42 GMT From: cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aa399@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (Len Stys) Subject: Z*Net and ST Report availability To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu If you are wondering where to get present or past copies of Z*Net or ST Report, they can be found on the Cleveland Free-Net. There are issues from a little over a year on the system. You can access the Cleveland Free-Net by "telnt 129.22.8.75". The past Online Mags are located in the Atari SIG (go atari) in the Atari Library (option 9). -- ------------------------------ Date: 16 Apr 91 07:29:28 GMT From: comp.vuw.ac.nz!am.dsir.govt.nz!marcamd!mercury!kcbbs!kc@uunet.uu.net (Jon Clarke) Subject: Z*Net email reply To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu ATT : Jeff Weiner @ Terminator. Jeff I was unable to reply to via email as our mailer did not like your mail address, I replied to Jon @ terminator and my message was simular to that, so if you can get a copy of that it may be the best way . This is a little onesided (grin) you can speak to me but I can not speak to me. Jon_Clarke@kcbbs.gen.nz Z*Net International On-line Magazine (NZ) ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ******************************