Info-Atari16 Digest Thu, 4 Apr 91 Volume 91 : Issue 190 Today's Topics: DigiComposer (was: Re: NoiseTracker v1.5) Does Lode Runner game exist for the ST? Expansion cases - Compatibility with hardware? Flicker Palettes [was Re: Graphics on the STE...] GCR + 1.44Mb floppies GIF (Was: Something about STE's) Graphics on the STE - v. generally speaking... (4 msgs) NET Appreciation !! Sideline Software Spectre GCR Mac->DeskJet Printer Driver Needed sundog Telecom program help needed (3 msgs) Two New Computer Announcements - CeBIT Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU. Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored. If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please contact the redistributor, not us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 3 Apr 91 17:56:22 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!uupsi!sunic! kullmar!pkmab!hexagon!daniel@arizona.edu (Daniel Deimert) Subject: DigiComposer (was: Re: NoiseTracker v1.5) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I have recently came across a new PD soundtracker from Sweden, called "Digi Composer". It is supposed to be ProTracker (Amiga) compatible, and it makes use of the STe PCM soundchip as well as stereo output (even on a normal ST w/ some kind of DA converter). It supports OverScan which is very nice when editing. ALSO NOTE: It is TT compatible and timer driven. No more 50/60 Hz problems! If someone would like to upload this to atari.archive, I will be happy to send you a disk. I don't have ftp access myself. [ In your article, you wrote: ] )Unlike Audio Sculpture, it [NT 1.5 -dd] allows you to save modules. I don't know if you knew this, but the version of A.S. on atari.archive is only a demo of a commersial product. Of course that version will allow you to save modules as well. A.S. has far better sound quality than any other soundtracker on the ST I know of, and it can play a lot of modules NT and DC will start bombing on. -- Daniel Deimert, daniel@hexagon.se or ...!sunic!kullmar!pkmab!hexagon!daniel ------------------------------ Date: 3 Apr 91 20:57:04 GMT From: viusys!uxui!unislc!bj@uunet.uu.net (Bruce Jones) Subject: Does Lode Runner game exist for the ST? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu The subject says it all. I would like to get Lode Runner for the ST if it exists. If yes, does someone want to sell their copy? If the answer is no are there any similar type games that you can recommend? Thanks, Bruce Jones Unisys Salt Lake City, Utah unislc!bj@cs.utah.edu (801) 594-7046 -- Unisys Salt Lake City, Utah unislc!bj@cs.utah.edu ------------------------------ Date: 3 Apr 91 00:26:34 GMT From: math.fu-berlin.de!opal!unido!horga!nathan!ue@uunet.uu.net (Udo Erdelhoff) Subject: Expansion cases - Compatibility with hardware? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1243@exua.exeter.ac.uk> SAMcinty@exua.exeter.ac.uk (Scott McIntyre) writes: > > My question is: With the high number of graphics cards and add on > processors available for the Mega, would it be possible to invest in > one of these tower cases, then get the add on card and have it work, > even though the machine is still a 520 or 1040? I'm afraid it won't be as easy as you've said it. Most graphics cards need to be connected to the internal connector of the Mega ST (so-called 'Mega-bus') and 520 and 1040 do not have this connector. You'll need to build this connector yourself... /s/ -- Udo Erdelhoff smart: ue@nathan.ruhr.de Am Westheck 170 Fido: Udo Erdelhoff on 2:245/52.1 W-4600 Dortmund 12 (FRG) Maus: Udo Erdelhoff @ DO Please keep your replies short - I have to pay for recieving mail ------------------------------ Date: 4 Apr 91 05:25:19 GMT From: pa.dec.com!decuac!haven!wam.umd.edu!dmb@decwrl.dec.com (David M. Baggett) Subject: Flicker Palettes [was Re: Graphics on the STE...] To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu hyc@hanauma.jpl.nasa.gov (Howard Chu) writes (in response to John Logajan): >>My guess would be that flicker and pseudo-shadow movements would be >>quite severe. So how does it really look? > >Try it and see, eh? >entire 256 color palette of the PC w/VGA. Try other setups.... I did try out the Fractint you posted ages ago that used flicker palettes, and it didn't flicker too badly. I bet some of the combinations you'll get with the two palettes you posted are pretty terrible though. I've played with this technique several different times and have never really been satisfied with the results. I'll load up my animation editor and try out color combinations at 60Hz -- some combinations seem to "fuse," i.e,. blend perfectly. In these cases you simply cannot tell that it's swapping between two colors. In many other cases, however, the colors don't fuse at all, and you get horrible, headache-inducing flicker. Mixing 000 and 777, e.g., is totally unbearable, at least on my monitor. I made a little demo that just mixed all combinations of colors in the default NEOchome palette. I got 256 colors on the screen. Yup. But you had to look at it from across the room, with the contrast all the way down, and squinting, or your eyes would turn to jelly and ooze out your head. (Neither was a pretty sight.) :-) I tried to come up with a formula or set of criteria that would predict which colors would fuse and which would flicker, but never could see a pattern. I did notice that some combinations look OK if the "blending area" is small, but not when you swap, e.g., two solid-color screens. In general, the larger the area, the more flicker. I also wonder if it's monitor-dependent. Anybody know how to algorithmically pick colors that always blend? Given such an algorithm, one could write a program to find an "optimal flicker palette" -- one where the most combinations possible were rock-solid. This would yield more colors on the screen at once with little flicker and not much CPU overhead. As Howard pointed out, such a screen mode would be superior to Spectrum 512 because each of the N different colors could appear anywhere on the screen. You could probably even do interactive animation (read: GAMES) with this mode, although all your raster operations would be only half as fast. Even if you couldn't find two palettes in which all combinations blended, finding enough to get 32 solid combinations would be better than what we've got now: 16 colors, Spectrum 512, or brain-melting flicker. Maybe if we assigned everyone reading this newsgroup a color combination to try and compiled the results... (Heck, there are only 262,144 different combinations. Aren't there supposed to be tens of thousands reading this group? Well then, that's only, what, 10-20 per person? I'll start the ball rolling with 000 and 001...) Dave Baggett dmb%wam.umd.edu@uunet.uu.net ------------------------------ Date: 3 Apr 91 22:14:05 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!wrdis01!nstn.ns.ca!bonnie.concordia.c a!IRO.UMontreal.CA!matrox!uvm-gen!kira!news@arizona.edu (Robert B. Pegram) Subject: GCR + 1.44Mb floppies To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu gjh@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Graham Higgins) asks: > Anyone know whether Spectre GCR handles the 1.44Mb floppy ugrade? The Dream Park chip swap that replaces the WD1772 with another controller? No, not yet. Dave Small would have to make the drives slow back down to 300 RPMS. The hack published here by hase (Hartmut Semken)? I am not sure about it, but it might work, since the disk speed remains at 300 RPM. I wouldn't bet the farm on it though 8-). In any case, Spectre GCR 3.0 doesn't support the high density mode, even if it could read GCR disks in such a system. Hope this helps, Bob Pegram pegram@griffin.uvm.edu or !uvm-gen!pegram ------------------------------ Date: 4 Apr 91 03:42:06 GMT From: noao!ncar!unmvax!nmt.edu!eahsnsr@arizona.edu (Eric A. Hobbs) Subject: GIF (Was: Something about STE's) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu in regards to loss of detail when displaying GIFS larger than 320 x 200 : Why not use the QuickGIF viewers available at atari.archive? There are two viewers (B&W and Color). They are both very small .TTP files, they're faster than other viewers I have seen, and you don't lose much, if any, picture detail. They both create a virtual screen that you can scroll around. They are still limited to 16 colors. To get around the 8 greyscale handicap, the B&W viewer allows you to select from one of 6 palettes that introduce the 8 shades of another color on top of the 8 pure grey shades. While this introduces a false color into the picture, the results are usually very good. Just my $0.025 cents worth. ---------------- Eric A. HOBBS! eahsnsr@JUPITER.nmt.edu ------------------------------ Date: 4 Apr 91 00:43:49 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!wuarchive!uwm.edu!bionet!agate!stew.ssl.berkel ey.edu!korpela@arizona.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Subject: Graphics on the STE - v. generally speaking... To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Apr3.223921.16258@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> hyc@hanauma.jpl.nasa.gov (Howard Chu) writes: > This is what >you get on a PC with VGA, 3 bits for one color, 3 bits for another, >and 2 bits for the last. I don't recall what the 2-bit color on VGA is. >At any rate, it covers the full spectrum; there are no color gaps or >missing or overemphasized colors in this scheme. Are you sure this is how things are done on the VGA? I though that VGA has a palette of 256 colors out of 32K total. In that case the number of bits assigned to each color is really up to the programmer. 32K total colors is 15 bits which turns into 5 bits each of R, G, and B. By appropriate palette choices a programmer could choose to have 5 bits of R and 3 bits of B represented in the byte allocated to each pixel (if he/she so desires.) Because each palette lookup table entry is independent I would think that it would be possible to use 2.67 bits per color rather than the 3,3,2 method you describe. (I, of course, don't mean that literally, but it should be possible to obtain a more even distribution across the spectrum than is possible with the 3,3,2 method). Then again, I don't know all that much about VGA graphics, so I may be wrong about this. /\ korpela@ssl.berkeley.edu Internet /__\ rioch BKYAST::KORPELA 42215::KORPELA DecNet / \ of Chaos korpela%bkyast@ucbjade Bitnet (_____________________ ------------------------------ Date: 3 Apr 91 23:40:58 GMT From: fernwood!portal!cup.portal.com!Bob_BobR_Retelle@decwrl.dec.com Subject: Graphics on the STE - v. generally speaking... To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu ----- Ed Krimen writes: >logajan@ns.network.com (John Logajan) writes: >- >4) Is it possible to get Gif images to look remotely nice on a STE? >- >- No. Even ST's in color mode have only 8 shades of grey, and the >- STe's have only 16. In high-res mode you just got on or off. >I must disagree -- assuming by 'remotely nice' we mean as good as >VGA. One may convert GIFs to Spectrum 512 format. ... Unfortunately, number of colors is only part of the story.. Spectrum 512, while allowing up to 512 colors on the screen, is still limited to low resolution... converting a VGA picture to 320 x 200 resolution usually results in severe loss of detail, and distortion of the aspect ratio of the original. (i.e., pictures come out fuzzy and squashed) DigiSpec does a fairly good job of conversion, but allows no control over aspec ratio... picture of people come out short and fat usually.. the GIF converters that DO allow control over aspect ratio usually end up reducing the picture so much that an extreme amount of detail is lost.. The only GIFs that convert reasonably well to the ST are ones which were 320 x 200 to begin with... and there aren't very many of those any more.. BobR ------------------------------ Date: 3 Apr 91 20:27:30 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!caen!news.cs.indiana.edu!msi.umn.edu!no c.MR.NET!ns!ns!logajan@arizona.edu (John Logajan) Subject: Graphics on the STE - v. generally speaking... To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu >>one frame-pixel in one of 8 possible levels. Or one at level 6 and >>the other in 7 possible levels, etc .. 8+7+6+5+4+3+2+1=36 levels per >>color, or 46,656 possible colors to choose from. > >Oops, many of those combinations are redundant upon averaging. >So you really have less. Far less! You get 15 non-redundant intensity levels by swapping two frames. Thus giving you 3375 colors (a subset of which is the 15 shades of grey) to choose from, but you still can only pick from 32 pallette cells per scan line (or zone.) -- - John Logajan @ Network Systems; 7600 Boone Ave; Brooklyn Park, MN 55428 - logajan@ns.network.com, 612-424-4888, Fax 612-424-2853 ------------------------------ Date: 4 Apr 91 06:12:21 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!caen!news.cs.indiana.edu!msi.umn.edu!no c.MR.NET!ns!ns!logajan@arizona.edu (John Logajan) Subject: Graphics on the STE - v. generally speaking... To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <40852@cup.portal.com> Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes: >Spectrum 512, while allowing up to 512 colors on the screen, The Spectrum 512 color claim is exceedingly misleading, by the way. Each scan line is broken up into three parts, and each section can use only 16 colors. Or 48 color changes across the screen. A true random 256 color machine can have 256 different colors across one line. A further problem is intensity quantumization. Suppose I have a color with R=5, G=5 and B=1. If I take it down one level, I have R=4, G=4 and B=0!!!! I can't get a lighter shade of the same color!! -- - John Logajan @ Network Systems; 7600 Boone Ave; Brooklyn Park, MN 55428 - logajan@ns.network.com, 612-424-4888, Fax 612-424-2853 ------------------------------ Date: 3 Apr 91 01:33:10 GMT From: hpl-opus!hpnmdla!hpsad!smithj@hplabs.hp.com (Jim Smith) Subject: NET Appreciation !! To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu objective observations \_______ ___________/ \/ net.oxymoron ? 63 :-) ------------------------------ Date: 3 Apr 91 10:17:29 GMT From: ncrcom!usglnk!ncrlnk!ncr-mpd!kentd@uunet.uu.net (Kent.Dalton) Subject: Sideline Software To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu >>>>> On 2 Apr 91 03:27:12 GMT, jcksnsr@nmt.edu (Admiral JC) said: > Hey, quickie question... has anyone out there had any dealings with > Sideline Software in Florida... I ran across their add in the Mar. Current I ordered Anarchy and Shoot 'em up Construction Kit about three to four weeks ago at their 14.95 price. The only problem I had was they accidently shipped it COD when I'd asked for credit card purchase... I called to make sure I wouldn't be charged for both, they said that there might have been some problem with card #, etc and to call if my card was charged. I got my credit card bill the other day and they didn't charge my card. Response time was fairly quick, about 1.5wks from FLA->CO. The worst thing, though, was that their specials go quick! I had a list of about 6 arcade games from their 14.95 specials I'd been wanting for a while and Anarchy was the only one they had left... (If anyone has a used Black Tiger or Strider for sale let me know!) > Notes and really liked the prices. Really liked their prices, really, really > low... perhaps $20 below nearest competitors on some stuff. Maybe too low. > Does this company actually exist and do they actually sell what they > advetise at what they advertise (14.95 for a game that everyone else has for > about $32.95 or more). I'm not sure how they get prices like that... When I visit my family in Columbus, Ohio I go to the local(!) atari/amiga/ibm shop. They buy/sell/trade and have great prices on used STuff (carry UK ST mags too). The scary thing is (and here comes my point) they have some kind of shrink-wrap capability because they can shrink-wrap the used stuff. Although it is marked, they could easily represent used software as new. I'm not saying Sideline does this, but it is one way to get good prices. Here're examples from the used 'deals' I got last visit to the shop in Columbus: $10 Drakkhen, $6 Battletech, $4 Iron Lord. The volume of business this store does is amazing. The Atari/Amiga markets in central OH must be thriving. -- /**************************************************************************/ /* Kent Dalton * EMail: Kent.Dalton@FtCollins.NCR.COM */ /* NCR Microelectronics * CIS: 72320,3306 */ /* 2001 Danfield Ct. MS470A * */ /* Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 * (303) 223-5100 X-319 */ /**************************************************************************/ Fortune: Hartley's Second Law: Never sleep with anyone crazier than yourself. ------------------------------ Date: 4 Apr 91 06:48:20 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!apple!agate!usenet@arizona.edu (John Kawakami) Subject: Spectre GCR Mac->DeskJet Printer Driver Needed To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu The subject line says it all. I have a DJ 500 and I need a driver for it. The MacPrint package seems to be what I need, but it has a serial -> parallel converter that I don't need. What do I do!?! In a related vein, are deskjet graphics laserjet compaitble and vice versa? John Kawakami kawakami@ocf.berkeley.edu Amateur Crank! ucbvax!ocf.berkeley.edu!kawakami ------------------------------ Date: 3 Apr 91 16:04:15 GMT From: zephyr.ens.tek.com!tekgen!boblu@beaver.cs.washington.edu (Robert Luneski) Subject: sundog To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <4450001@hpcvca.CV.HP.COM> jg@hpcvca.CV.HP.COM (Joe Gilray) writes: > >What are the system requirements for Sundog? RAM? color? Etc. > Sundog runs on any color ST. It is one of the true lost classics. A really great game! ____________________________________________________________________________ Bob Luneski boblu@tekgen.BV.TEK.COM Genie: B.LUNESKI1 The opinions expressed herein are my own and in no way reflect the opinions of Tektronix, Inc. ------------------------------ Date: 4 Apr 91 01:04:44 GMT From: ccncsu!lamar!sytang@purdue.edu (Shoou-yu tang) Subject: Telecom program help needed To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In regard the question of some one said the uniterm.tar.Z has date of Apr.3: Yes, it's Apr. 3 but not 1991, it's Apr.3 1990. So it's the 2.0e version. Is there any translated doc for rufus? Tang sytang@lamar.colostate.edu ------------------------------ Date: 4 Apr 91 01:09:45 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!umich!termi nator!terminator.cc.umich.edu!weiner@arizona.edu (Jeff Weiner) Subject: Telecom program help needed To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Apr3.220529.1164@menudo.uh.edu> rcte2p@menudo.uh.edu (Paul S. Sears) writes: >BTW, I saw that uniterm.tar.Z was dated April 3 (today!) - is this a new >version? or did someone just re-upload it? > Look a bit closer, April 3, 1990 is the timestamp. Perhaps we should have some sort of soiree, to celebrate the year anniversary of the last uniterm update.... :) >Later! > >-- >Paul Sears The Univ. of Houston |"The greater an individual's power >Student of the College of Technology | over others, the greater the evil that >RCTE2P@Jetson.uh.edu *** | might possibly originate with him." >RCTE2P@menudo.uh.edu * * * | - PROPAGANDA, from A Secret Wish (CD) weiner -- Jeff Weiner weiner@terminator.cc.umich.edu Jeff_Weiner@ub.cc.umich.edu Mail Dennis_Devine@ub.cc.umich.edu and ask if he'd like a White Castle Atari.archive.umich.edu Caretaker||194M and climbin'|| "So like take off eh?" ------------------------------ Date: 4 Apr 91 05:33:48 GMT From: noao!ncar!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!lavaca.uh.edu!menudo.uh.edu!rcte2p@arizona. edu (Paul S. Sears) Subject: Telecom program help needed To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu sytang@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Shoou-yu tang) boldy writes in article <13976@ccncsu.ColoState.EDU> > > In regard the question of some one said the uniterm.tar.Z has date of Apr.3: > Yes, it's Apr. 3 but not 1991, it's Apr.3 1990. So it's the 2.0e version. > Is there any translated doc for rufus? > Tang > sytang@lamar.colostate.edu Er, yeah... I see that it is April 1990.... sheesh... I better get out of the past quick, eh? Note: This is the second posting in which I was mis-informed... I think I will fade back into net.nowhere for awhile... :-) -- Paul Sears The Univ. of Houston |"The greater an individual's power Student of the College of Technology | over others, the greater the evil that RCTE2P@Jetson.uh.edu *** | might possibly originate with him." RCTE2P@menudo.uh.edu * * * | - PROPAGANDA, from A Secret Wish (CD) ------------------------------ Date: 3 Apr 91 21:11:54 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!snorke lwacker.mit.edu!thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu!bonnie.concordia.ca!IRO.UMontreal.CA! matrox!uvm-gen!kira!news@arizona. (Robert B. Pegram) Subject: Two New Computer Announcements - CeBIT To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu From article <1991Mar29.150606.11735@chinet.chi.il.us>, by saj@chinet.chi.il.us (Stephen Jacobs): > How's this: a combination power brick, floppy drive and external video > adapter, that plugs in to the expansion connector? I second that idea 8-), and it should quiet those of us who tend to confuse light and heavy laptops with each other. > Don't anyone get too excited; these are just some ramblings. And by the way, > who's the magic person who has to say 'this will happen' and make these > officially-announced future Atari products? And has that person said that? > Steve saj@chinet.chi.il.us Sounds like they 're committed to them or they wouldn't show them. Hope the weight is really low (what was it again?) and the price isn't too high. 8-) Bob Pegram pegram@griffin.uvm.edu or !uvm-gen!pegram ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ******************************