Info-Atari16 Digest Wed, 27 Mar 91 Volume 91 : Issue 173 Today's Topics: 1 year warranty and stuff 2.5 million ST's sold worldwide! amiga emulators Art Program Request Summary Mercury Metafile --> DVI Printer Drivers Problem using HP II P laserprinter with 1040 ST STE DMA bug The TT and GCR Thoughts on DC Utilities (2 msgs) tn3270 emulator request TT REVIEW union demo 2 Unix on the TT Xlisp and windows Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU. Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored. If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please contact the redistributor, not us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 27 Mar 91 11:16:22 GMT From: noao!ncar!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!pacbel l.com!ucsd!nosc!crash!pro-odyssey.cts.com!chuckie@arizona.edu (Chuck Schul) Subject: 1 year warranty and stuff To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In-Reply-To: message from Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com never fom the us mogals ---- ProLine: chuckie@pro-odyssey Internet: chuckie@pro-odyssey.cts.com UUCP: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie ARPA: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie@nosc.mil ------------------------------ Date: 25 Mar 91 09:22:47 GMT From: mcsun!ukc!edcastle!hwcs!neil@uunet.uu.net (Neil Forsyth) Subject: 2.5 million ST's sold worldwide! To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <669369942.7@egsgate.Fidonet.Org> writes: >I just heard that ST Format magazine (great U.K. magazine) ... Yeah, great if you normally read Kleenex, Dixel or even Izal. >... stated that Atari U.K. announced 2.5 million ST's sold worldwide! The very same Atari UK that said the TT would be 1200 quid. > This is great. Last time I heard it was at 1.9 to 2 million. Well the number can only go up can't it. You can't unsell an ST. My guess would be that sales are generally on a decline. >S.S. +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ! DISCLAIMER:Unless otherwise stated, the above comments are entirely my own ! ! ! ! Neil Forsyth JANET: neil@uk.ac.hw.cs ! ! Dept. of Computer Science ARPA: neil@cs.hw.ac.uk ! ! Heriot-Watt University UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!neil ! ! Edinburgh, Scotland, UK "That was never 5 million!" ! +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 27 Mar 91 11:16:23 GMT From: noao!ncar!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!pacbel l.com!ucsd!nosc!crash!pro-odyssey.cts.com!chuckie@arizona.edu (Chuck Schul) Subject: amiga emulators To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu anybody seen the amiga emulators or know where i can get it? ---- ProLine: chuckie@pro-odyssey Internet: chuckie@pro-odyssey.cts.com UUCP: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie ARPA: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie@nosc.mil ------------------------------ Date: 26 Mar 91 20:02:48 GMT From: aurs01!whitcomb@uunet.uu.net (Jonathan Whitcomb) Subject: Art Program Request Summary To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu My thanks to the folks who responded to my request for advice on art programs. Here is a summary: From: Conan the Barbarian (John Schmitt) -My recommendation goes to Deluxe Paint ST. Supports STe colours -and has "Two and a half D" (2.5D) animations capabilities via tweening. As -a paint programs it is very good. As an animation tool, it is somewhat -limited. I am not an artist, but I find myself firing this up and playing -and occasionally keeping something. I like it a lot. From: schultzd@sierra.egr.msu.edu (David Schultz) -ART ST, the Shareware art program that gets bundled with QuickST is -reasonable. It will save in a couple different formats. Not sure -where it can be gotten. I got mine with QuickST. From: uunet!ihlpf.att.com!hofmann (James R Hofmann) -You should consider Easydraw from Migraph. It has a number of companion -programs such as Touchup and Easy Tools. From: boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd) -I would highly recommend Degas Elite. I use it constantly in combination with -PicSwitch to edit clipart for Pagestream. It has a nice user interface, and -does not crash. I do not know if it works on the STE or the TT. Now, I don't -really do much in color with it. If you are interested in actually drawing, -you may wish to give Spectrum 512 a try. Also, I think some really famous -Amiga paint program is now produced for the ST (Deluxe Paint?). Wow! Four replies, and six different recommendations! Is Degas Elite still available? Does anyone else care to add to this list? I don't care if the program is PD or commercial, but I probably don't want to pay more than 50-60 bucks. Another note: I just got the ST Format book on the ST, and it had two disks of PD software. Included was a version of Neochrome that was newer than mine (V0.5?), but had no version number listed. It added features such as circles and polygons, and allowed you to cut and paste blocks, but I had the program crash a couple of times in the 5 hours that I used it. I thought that Neochrome was a commercial product (after V1.0)...what's the deal here? ********************************************************************** Jonathan Whitcomb UUCP: Alcatel Network Systems, Raleigh, NC Delphi: JBWHIT ------------------------------ Date: 27 Mar 91 00:10:57 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-st ate.edu!ohstpy!miavx1!miamiu!jc5lsanu@arizona.edu Subject: Mercury To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Could someone please E-mail me the path to find Mercury on atari.archive or some other site along with it's path. I have looked through atari.archive and come up empty. PLEASE help. -= *** jc5lsanu@miamiu.bitnet | | *** jmcrider@miavx1.bitnet | You are the epicenter of my | | nothingness. | JC Bear | - Anon | -= ------------------------------ Date: 27 Mar 91 15:13:12 GMT From: timbuk!marc@uunet.uu.net (Marc Bouron) Subject: Metafile --> DVI To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Mar26.051302.6007@nmt.edu>, eahsnsr@nmt.edu (Eric A. Hobbs) writes: |> |> While I'm on the subject of conversion programs, is there an ST |> program that will convert from Metafiles to DVI? |> |> |> ------------- |> Eric A. HOBBS! |> eahsnsr@JUPITER.nmt.edu This solution may be a little `round the houses', but you could use the GEM2PS utility to convert the metafile to PostScript, and use dvips to convert your DVI file. Of course, this only works if you have access to a PostScript printer... :-) GEM2PS can be found on atari.archive (I think) and dvips can be found virtually ANYWHERE! I've not tested GEM2PS, but I use dvips every day. [M][a][r][c] ################################################################################ # # marc@sequoia.cray.com # . . # # Marc CR Bouron # M.Bouron@cray.co.uk (ARPA) # _|\ /|_ # # Cray Research (UK) Ltd. # M.Bouron@crayuk.uucp (DOMAIN) # (_|_V_|_) # # +44 344 485971 x2208 # M.Bouron@uk.co.cray (JANET) # | | # # # ...!ukc!crayuk!M.Bouron (UUCP) # # ################################################################################ ------------------------------ Date: 25 Mar 91 10:48:21 GMT From: mcsun!ukc!stl!iclbra!icl!srs@uunet.uu.net (Steve Strong) Subject: Printer Drivers To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Hi There, I've obtained an old Olympus printer that I want to get working on my parents' ST. They mainly use FW+. Could some kind soul out there mail me the format of the printer drivers in FW+, and maybe some tips on how to write them. BTW, the printer is a daisy whll if that makes any difference. Replies by email please, since I don't suppose many other people are interested. I'll forward replies to anyone who would like the info. Thanks, Steve- srs@uk.co.stc.icl.oasis ------------------------------ Date: 27 Mar 91 15:19:31 GMT From: pa.dec.com!shlump.nac.dec.com!kboeng.enet.dec.com!heiden@decwrl.dec.com (Matthias Heiden) Subject: Problem using HP II P laserprinter with 1040 ST To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu While trying to print to an HP II P laserprinter using the parallel port I'm running into two annoying errors: 1. The printer is only recognised by the system if: first the printer is powered on and then the system is booted. This wouldn't be a problem, but 2. after some time without printing anything (around 20 - 30 minutes), the system just stops running. System needs a reboot to come into live again. Does anybody made similar experience and found solutions to these problems ? My setup is: 1040 ST with 2.5 Mbyte , TOS 1.4, Neodesk 3.0, SH204 and SM124 Any help is appreciated. Matthias Heiden -- digital equipment GmbH heiden@kbomfg.enet.dec.com advanced system process development Sudetenstrasse 5 W - 8950 Kaufbeuren (Germany) work: +49 8341 913392 -- ------------------------------ Date: 27 Mar 91 15:11:59 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!trwind!venice!sleepy!jharres@arizona.edu Subject: STE DMA bug To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Well I finally got bit last night. The wonderful STE DMA (read harddrive) bug got me. After doing a couple hours of work on the computer with probably 25 or so disk accesses it gave me the "somethings wrong with the disk drive" alert. I then could no longer see the partitions even though the hard disk driver would run. I have an ICD plus host adapter and a syquest drive. Does this error (the STE DMA problem) always hammer the disk in the same manner? If so, what is necessary to go and recover the drive. No I didn't have a backup as I've had it only 2 weeks and wasn't sure if I liked my layout yet. (Lesson learned though :-( ). I'll be contacting Atari about a warranty problem in the mean time. Thanks for any help. Jim Harres jharres@doc.bmd.trw.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1991 08:52:00 -0500 From: CSULLOGG@CRL.AECL.CA Subject: The TT and GCR To: info-atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu One netter asked about the TT and GCR ver 3. I have it and it works OK. However, it seems that some MegaSTEs and some TTs have a different cartridge port configuration and many cartridges, like GCR, will not work on them. Case in point, I had to send a Mega4STE back to Atari to get it fixed to work with GCR. My TT, on the other hand, worked with GCR out of the box. But, but, but... GCR does not support the internal TT hard disk yet and the only way I could run GCR was with an old SH204 drive attached. Dave Small is supposed to correct this with version 3.1 (Hey Dave, PLEASE release 3.1 a.s.a.p.). I kept crashing my TT when I changed resolutions and finally I have found out why. I run Neoload from the AUTO folder just in case I want to run NeoDesk; now that I do not run Neoload, no more crashes. Does anyone have a list of VME cards that I can use on the TT. Atari Canada said there was a frame grabber, GENLOCK and a 24bit graphics board but did not give any more detail. Finally, some 486 enthusiast flamed the TT; for example, he quoted the number of colours and the resolution that the 486 supports. Hey bud, a PC does not come with any graphics card, you have to specify what graphics card you want in the system. On the other hand, the TT supports 6 video modes out of the box (including 1280x960) and anyone who wants a zillion colours at megapixel screen size can add a graphics card later. Lesson to be learned - compare apples with apples (pun intended). My TT can run Mac software more than 10 times the speed of a Mac, can your 486 box do that by simply plugging in a Spectre GCR cartridge? Me thinks not! A 486 is required to make Windows as fast to use as the GUI on an 8 MHz Mac or Atari; wow have PCs ever vaulted into the GUI forefront! ------------------------------ Date: 27 Mar 91 11:59:48 GMT From: noao!asuvax!ukma!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!uupsi!rodan.acs.syr.ed u!ggreenbe@arizona.edu (Gerald Greenberg) Subject: Thoughts on DC Utilities To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Mar26.193248.6395@netcom.COM> kron@netcom.COM (Kenneth Kron) writes: >From article <59676@aurs01.UUCP>, by whitcomb@aurs01.uucp (Jonathan Whitcomb): >> [[ Details deleted ]] >> I like the package in general. My main complaint is that DC makes >> assumptions about how you will be using their software, and don't >> give you alternative options. They also seem oblivious of how >> their products work with other common programs (Pinhead, LGSelector, >> Hotwire!, NeoDesk, etc.). Maybe I've just been spoiled by Codehead >> products, which are fantastic in this regard. I also wouldn't expect >> bugs and unpredictable behavior from a second generation product. >> I recommend it for DC Squish, though. >> Anyone else have any reflections on DC products? >I agree with you 100% Jonathan. I have been thinking about writing >something simular thanks for saving me the time. I bought DC Destop and >while the individual programs are all very nice they just aren't >configurable enough and I find my self having to reference the manual too >often. The situation is just bad enough that while I haven't written >them off I will be hesitant to buy anything else from them. >> -Jonathan the verbose >> ********************************************************************** >> Jonathan Whitcomb UUCP: >Kenneth Kron kron@netcom.COM Well, I thought I'd give a posititive side to this line of comments. I've been using DC packages back from the days when they were shareware and not commercial...maybe even before that, that is, when Vedermann was writing his own programs, and I must say I really like them. I guess I should like them, otherwise why would I be using them? In any event, using them has so much improved my ST that on those rare times I boot up from a floppy (as opposed to my hard disk), it is like a totally different machine...so much less fun to use. I can't imagin ever doing without the things afforded by the packages. As for the configurability. Sure, when I first got DCDesktop I had to go through the manual to find out how certain things worked...but I don't see anything wrong with that considering the number of options available. Also, the people at DC have always been willing to answer any problems concerning any aspect of the program...in fact, they have an internet address! Finally, the first post made some comments about DCExtract...I find this one of the most used programs I have. As for it being unintuitive, I have no problem at all with it now...If I had problems with it in the beginning, I've totally forgotten about them now. --Gerry ggreenbe@rodan.acs.syr.edu Disclaimer: I have no connection with DC other than being a long time user, who hopes they continue to improve their current products and develop new ones. ------------------------------ Date: 27 Mar 91 13:25:32 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!wuarchive!gumby!wmu-coyote!dodgson@arizona.edu (Harry Dodgson) Subject: Thoughts on DC Utilities To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <59677@aurs01.UUCP>, whitcomb@aurs01.UUCP (Jonathan Whitcomb) writes: [lots of stuff deleted] - -My main problem with DC Squish is that sometimes when - -I unsquish a program, it leaves a squished copy in the folder - -that I can't delete. I guess it sets a read only bit, but I - -can't seem to clear it. > DC claims this is a TOS problem (I use V1.2). What happens is > that TOS leaves two files in the folder with the same name (a > Squished and unSquished version), and then gets confused when > trying to erase one. The solution is to rename one, and then > reboot. Then you can get rid of the offending file. A bit of a > hassle. DC says that they will consider circumventing the problem > in the next version by using their own delete routine instead of > relying on TOS. The usual way of accomplishing this is to create your output file under another name, like compress.$$$ (standard CPM tmp file). Then when you close it, you delete the original and rename the temp file to the original name. Not a difficult task, and does not force major program revisions / programming kludges. [more stuff deleted] - P.S. Last week the on the Delphi Atari weekly conference we decided - a great hack would be to have the pink Energizer bunny come booming - across the monitor from time to time with a digitized voice saying - "...still going...". Sometimes across the bottom, sometimes across - the top or up and down the sides. A DC program of the week, perhaps? Have they seen NetBunny for the Mac? Does a nice job of this on networked Mac-IIs (with sys 6.05 and 32-bit Qdraw only). Goes around to each of the machines in turn, banging on the drum. Makes it nearly impossible to get anything done. And you gotta reboot to stop it. -- Harry Dodgson Jr. | Internet dodgson@sol.cs.wmich.edu -(35.132.4.2)- Western Michigan University | UUCP ...uunet!sharkey!wmichgw!wmu-cs!dodgson Computer Science Department | Voice (616) 387-5803 Kalamazoo, MI 49008 | Office 4420 Dunbar Hall ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Mar 91 11:06:51 MEZ From: "Dr. Jens Schleusener" Subject: tn3270 emulator request To: info-atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Hello, I am not a ATARIst, but I have an ATARIstical problem: We have IBM TCP/IP and KNET running on our production systems (VM, MVS) and want to take KNET off the system. That means the lost of the 3270 emulator that KNET offers on the host for all workstations with "simple" TELNET support e.g. the ATARI ST and IRIS workstations. I'm searching for a public domain or commercial product providing a full screen 3270 terminal emulation (via TCP/IP and Ethernet or coax) for the ATARI ST. Thanks in advance Jens Schleusener ------------------------------ Date: 27 Mar 91 01:38:39 GMT From: fernwood!portal!atari!apratt@decwrl.dec.com (Allan Pratt) Subject: TT REVIEW To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu >D.B.Barratt@newcastle.ac.uk (Dave Barratt) writes: >>The following is more or less the complete review of the TT by >>Richard Monteiro, which appeared in the April edition of Computer >>Shopper (UK edition). (Article 359 lines in total) rwa@cs.athabascau.ca (Ross Alexander) writes: >I think that's a 256-byte rather than a 256 Kbyte D-cache [...] Right. >About the serial ports: how many _uarts_ does this machine have, as >opposed to how many connectors appear on the back? Here's the deal. There is a 68901, just like the ST, and that goes to the "Modem 1" connector on the back. It has all the signals that the ST has, in all the same places. It's your primary compatibility-mode port. There's a 8530, which contains two channels. One of those channels, Channel A, goes to EITHER the LAN connector on the side OR the port labeled "Serial 2" on the back. It's got all of the modem control signals, except Ring Indicator. ("All" is TX, RX, CD, DTR, DSR, RTS, CTS, RI, and ground ("earth" to you Brits :-).) You select which connector Channel A actually goes to in software. You can't use both the LAN port and "Serial 2" at the same time. Channel B of the 8530 goes to the port on the back called "Modem 2." It has all the modem control signals, including RI. Finally, there is a second 68901 MFP, and its serial port appears on the back of the TT as "Serial 1." It is a three-wire connection: transmit, receive, and ground only. In case you couldn't tell, the two "modem" connections have all the signals, and the two "serial" connections don't: "Serial 1" has only three wires, but "Serial 2" only lacks RI. If you have a VME card, you lose the Serial 1 and Serial 2 connectors, unless you mess with your case (and probably void your warranty): the connectors appear in the (otherwise empty) VME slot. As for "checklist engineering," we did it this way because the serial port is free if you're not using the LAN connector: if you don't use the LAN port, would you rather have that serial port, or nothing? ============================================ Opinions expressed above do not necessarily -- Allan Pratt, Atari Corp. reflect those of Atari Corp. or anyone else. ...ames!atari!apratt ------------------------------ Date: 27 Mar 91 11:16:16 GMT From: noao!ncar!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!pacbel l.com!ucsd!nosc!crash!pro-odyssey.cts.com!chuckie@arizona.edu (Chuck Schul) Subject: union demo 2 To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu any body have number 2.i saw number 2 once it is nice and i am looking for a copy of it.i have number 1 it is nice.but 2 will blow you mind with the graphics and sound.wow!!!if you have it fess up dudes.if you want a copy of one let me know.i will mail it out if you send 2 or 3 buck for a disk and mailer. ---- ProLine: chuckie@pro-odyssey Internet: chuckie@pro-odyssey.cts.com UUCP: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie ARPA: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie@nosc.mil ------------------------------ Date: 25 Mar 91 10:17:44 GMT From: mcsun!ukc!edcastle!hwcs!neil@uunet.uu.net (Neil Forsyth) Subject: Unix on the TT To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Is it possible to buy a TT and run Unix (and possibly) X Windows right now as I type? And again, is the LAN port being used yet? +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ! DISCLAIMER:Unless otherwise stated, the above comments are entirely my own ! ! ! ! Neil Forsyth JANET: neil@uk.ac.hw.cs ! ! Dept. of Computer Science ARPA: neil@cs.hw.ac.uk ! ! Heriot-Watt University UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!neil ! ! Edinburgh, Scotland, UK "That was never 5 minutes!" ! +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 27 Mar 91 07:29:49 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!apple!agate!sunspot.berkeley.edu!ericco@arizon a.edu (Eric C. Olson) Subject: Xlisp and windows To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I've started developing an object oriented window system for the Atari. Has somebody already done this? If so, what was your approach (and how can I get it)? If not, perhaps you'll be amused at my attempt. First, I haven't used by Atari in a long time (for programming). I started to think about selling it, but I decided to give it a review. I've been (somewhat) following c.s.a.s.t, where someone mentioned Xlisp. Well, as I poked through my disks, I discovered that I already had a copy. Browsing through the documentation, I noticed that it was kinda object-oriented. But it did have any atari interfaces really. I'd also recently interviewed a guy from autocad who mentioned that it used Xlisp as an extension language. It looked pretty easy to add C code to Xlisp, so I added a couple of bios functions to it. And guess what ... it was easy -- so soon as I remembered that bios function work and gemdos function almost work. Grinning with success, I took on the AES -- which I vaguely remember hating. All I can say is that some of that old code must still be cluttering my mind, since I quickly got a window going. So, the long and the short of it is, I'm thinking about following this up a little more seriously. Before I commit, I'd like to know about other atari work, and general interest in this. The general direction would be toward a single large application that integrated other C source code applications into Xlisp objects. The idea being that it shouldn't be too hard to convert a C library into an Xlisp object. The AES interface will be my first attempt. I'll blow off any attempt at working with multiple screens, but I think it will work with any VDI complaint device. Hmmm, Eric -- Eric ericco@ssl.berkeley.edu ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ******************************