Info-Atari16 Digest Sat, 23 Mar 91 Volume 91 : Issue 165 Today's Topics: 1040STE's Atari ST 4M RAM, 20M Harddisk, Software for Sale E-mail files for IBM? For sale. I need help! Bad memory .... LDW Power Version 2 LEXICOR, Atari TT/030, Video Toaster lynx Macrovision Eliminators Midi file format (Used by several midi programs). Modula-2 and Oberon compilers for Atari ST Standardized disk layout/folder names standard practices ST Pad specs (2 msgs) TT REVIEW (2 msgs) What's at CeBIT? Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU. Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored. If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please contact the redistributor, not us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 23 Mar 91 01:23:53 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!ogicse!unmvax!nmt. edu!eahsnsr@arizona.edu (Eric A. Hobbs) Subject: 1040STE's To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I'm not sure if my other post got through. If it did, I'm sorry. The Post said that Toad Computers sells 1040STe's for $399. ---------------- Eric A. HOBBS! eahsnsr@JUPITER.nmt.edu ------------------------------ Date: 23 Mar 91 07:39:56 GMT From: sgi!mips!public!a9@ames.arpa (a9 a9@btr.com) Subject: Atari ST 4M RAM, 20M Harddisk, Software for Sale To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Please call her directly at the number at the end. Do not reply to me. ----------------------------------------- Atari ST520 with 4M RAM, 16Mhz accelerator, 20MB **HARDDISK** *TWO* 720K floppies, monitor , modem, printer etc PLUS Laser C with Debugger, LWD Basic, Assembler,, Wordprocessors, spreadsheet, PC-Ditto, Games and lots of other software.... Hardware & Software. All goes as a package .. only $700 or best offer. Excellent Condition; Working Like New! HARDWARE: -------- 4 megabyte RAM; 16 MHZ accelerator chip; mouse, external 20 megabyte hard disk; two 3.5"/720 kilobyte floppy drives; color monitor; Avatex 1200 bauds external modem; real time clock; internal fans for cooling; power supplies and floppy drives enclosed in heavy-duty metal case; MIDI port; serial port; parallel port; communications port; TV set port; Morrow MP100 daisy wheel parallel printer (with a box of ribbons); Jacobson Anderson serial printer/terminal/typewriter; 50 cps, dot- matrix Texas Instruments 8 pin printer, all interconnection cables included. SOFTWARE LANGUAGES: ------------------ 68000 Assempro Assembly; Laser C Compiler/Linker; Laser C Debugger; LDW Basic Compiler/Linker; ST Basic Interpreter; ST Logo. SOFTWARE UTILITIES: ------------------ Revolver memory manager; Universal item selector II directory/file manager; Turbo ST accelerator; Z-time real time calendar/clock manager; Aerco EasieST utilities; PC ditto for MS-DOS applications compatibility. SOFTWARE APPLICATIONS: --------------------- Flash communications package; Wordplus wordprocessor; Wordplus merge mailer; Wordplus dictionary merger; VIP Professional 1-2-3- like spreadsheet; HelpCALC spreadsheet templates for VIP Professional; dbMan database manager; Hippoconcept idea processor/outliner; Express letter processor; Easydraw draw package; Macromouse automatic-mouse programmer; STkey keyboard programmer; Learning C graphics; stereo CAD-3D CAD package; Cybermate CAD package; Lionhart PERT scheduler; Lionhart Planner 1; Lionhart Planner 2; ST GEM operation system programming. EDUCATION: --------- Learning Trigonometry; Typing Tutor; The Cartographer Maps. GAMES: ----- Joust; Megaroids; Frozen Legacy; Sundog; Flight Simulator II; Hippo Almanac; Super Huey; Hippo Jokes; Neochrome. REFERENCE BOOKS: --------------- .ATARI ST Machine Language .ATARI ST Internals .GEM Programmer's Reference .ATARI ST: GEM AES Technical Reference Guide .Programming Graphics on the Amiga & ATARI ST with C Language Please call after 6:00 PM: (408) 296-0922. Helena ------------------------------ Date: 23 Mar 91 02:21:59 GMT From: cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aa519@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (Scotty Meredith) Subject: E-mail files for IBM? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I do not have FTP access (legally), so I think BART is the best thing since Chevrolet. I was just wondering if there is any mail systems similar to BART for IBM programs? Thank you in advance! Scotty aa519@cleveland.freenet.edu -- QUESTION: What is the only thing an Amiga can * * * do, that an Atari ST cant?? * * * * * * ANSWER: Flicker! * * * ------------------------------ Date: 23 Mar 91 14:12:29 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!rpi!uupsi!rodan.acs.syr.edu!mjducey@arizona.ed u (Matthew J. Ducey) Subject: For sale. To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Well I first have to say I just hate doing this. Having an Atari for over 11 years, it's just hard to part. I need to sell my system. I have the following and more (I'm sure I forgot something). I'd like to sell it in parts, as I do need the cash. Please make an offer, the best will get it. I have: 520ST with 2.5 megs (will sell the card and chips if wanted that way) SF354 turned into a double sided drive. Supra 30MB Hard Disk SuperCharger with both software packages Moniter Master SM124 SC1124 Genius Mouse Gemstik Joy Stick LDW Power WordPerfect(upgrade too) DataManager ST Turbo ST The Juggler Mark Willams C and debugger Michtron BBS TONS of STart mags and disks and some old Compute stuff Falcon Red Lightning Airborne Ranger <-and I just got that too!:( Risk Orge SDI Football And about 10 programming books. Ugh. Email me if anyone is intrested in anything and we will talk about price etc. Matthew -- But I still like my ST... HP-48SX CIS 70521,373 SOCEUR (A) Bitnet mjducey@suvm "But Sgt. Airborne, look how high we are"! mjducey@rodan.acs.syr.edu ------------------------------ Date: 23 Mar 91 05:04:38 GMT From: noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!usc!chaph.usc.edu!aludra.usc.edu!baffoni@arizona .edu (Juxtaposer) Subject: I need help! Bad memory .... To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu My ST started flaking out on me just recently. After warming up, for 1/2 hour to 15 min., it would bomb out or become a nasty blob of random speckles. So I used a memory checker on my memory and it is an intermittant problem with the high-bank bit 2: it expected A5A5 and got A7A5, or it expected E4BC and it got E6BC. Anyway, I want to desolder the bad 256k chip, but I don't know which of the 16 it is. I have an original 520ST with RF modulator, and the board is Revision B. The addresses that it failed at were 0007FF74 to around 0007FD8C. At present I only have 512k of memory. Please, if anyone can tell me the correct chip, and maybe a chart for future reference, PLEASE EMAIL ME! I think I'll go nuts without my ST! Thank you all MUCH in advance! -Mike baffoni@aludra.usc.edu or mbaffoni@skat.usc.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Mar 91 22:39:45 AST From: Alyre CHIASSON Subject: LDW Power Version 2 To: N I called a major mail order house today(March 22) with the intention of ordering LDW Power. I was told that version 2 was now out and the price had gone from 84 to 129$. This would suggest that some major changes have been made. I decided to hold off purchasing until I had a bit more info. Can anyone inform me as to what these changes are and how they relate to the price increase. Thanks CHIASSAL@UDEM ------------------------------ Date: 21 Mar 91 03:28:26 GMT From: attcan!telly!moore!eastern!egsgate!FredMail@uunet.uu.net Subject: LEXICOR, Atari TT/030, Video Toaster To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Actually, the Mega ST computers have always had a built in expansion bus. The new Mega STE and TT computers have a half-height Euro-card 3U VME bus. There are many expansion boxes available that will provide for 6-12 slots and these plug into the backplane of these Atari VME bus machines. The VME bus in the Mega STE and TT could very well be used for the video toaster. S.S. #! rnews 582 ------------------------------ Date: 23 Mar 91 04:03:34 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!chaph.usc.edu!aludra.usc.edu!jjung@arizona.edu (Robert Jung) Subject: lynx To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Mar19.200450.21738@isc.rit.edu> drp9500@isc.rit.edu (D.R. Paradis ) writes: >In article <15926@chaph.usc.edu> jjung@aludra.usc.edu (Robert Jung) writes: >> Portable game system market so far: >> >> Nintendo Gameboy $89 B&W, 1-2 players >> Atari Lynx $99/$149 Color, 1-8-??? players > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > try 1-144!!! I knew that already (heck, there ain't a piece of non-proprietary Lynx information I _don't_ know). However, there doesn't exist a 144-player Lynx game yet, so I don't want to count it so high so far. (My sources say the ComLynx LAN has no upper limit -- the only limitations are in the software. The upcoming CHCEKERED FLAG auto racing game is supposed to support 1-6 players, which breaks the powers-of-two trend currently existing) >> NEC TurboExpress $300+ Color, 1-2 players, accepts >> TurboGraphix-16 games > ~~~~ > $250 (tuner shown in ads is an extra $150) $300 now. NEC announced a price hike a few weeks back. When the TE's return (any day now?), it will cost more. Don't matter to me, I don't like the TurboGraphix-16 games anyway. --R.J. B-) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ # ## # Send replies to jjung@nunki.usc.edu # ## # ## ## ## I wrote this. If you've got a comment, give #### ## #### it to me and let's cut out the middleman. ------------------------------ Date: 23 Mar 91 02:29:54 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!jato!hanauma!hyc@arizona.edu (Howard Chu) Subject: Macrovision Eliminators To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <9103201915.AA03146@george> gpinzone@george.poly.edu writes: >One other to add to the list is the one made by BP. You can get it at Fordham >Electronics: > >Fordham Electronics >260 Motor Parkway >Hauppauge, NY 11788-5134 >516-435-8080 FAX: 516-435-8079 >Out of state: 800-645-9518 >NYS state: 800-832-1446 > >Model V-1896 >$49.95 > >This also is an audio and video enhancer. It also stops picture rolling >(remember the good 'ol days?) Stops picture rolling? Can it stop the rolling caused by trying to view a 50hz video signal on a 60hz TV? -- -- Howard Chu @ Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA Disclaimer: How would I know, I just got here! ------------------------------ Date: 23 Mar 91 03:14:33 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wuarchive!csus.e du!ucdavis!elroy.ucdavis.edu!ez002643@arizona.edu Subject: Midi file format (Used by several midi programs). To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st,comp.music Subject: Re: Midi file format (Used by several midi programs). Summary: Expires: References: <1482@ahds.UUCP> <10189@pitt.UUCP> Sender: Followup-To: Distribution: Organization: Davis Keywords: MIDI, MIDI file format, atari, samplers, sound processing Try anon FTP to ucsd... i forget which machine exactly... anyone else know? They even have patches for all sorts of synths along with complete MIDI specs... enjoy. ***NEVER WASTE BANDWIDTH WITH LAME SIGNATURES!!! TREES WILL DIE ACCIDENTALLY! ------------------------------ Date: 23 Mar 91 02:31:29 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!jato!vsnyder@arizona.edu (Van Snyder) Subject: Modula-2 and Oberon compilers for Atari ST To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I've been using the TDI Modula-2 compiler for the Atari ST for several years. But I understand they're belly up now. Has anybody taken over TDI's assets (and responsibilities such as updates / consultation)? Is there any decent Modula-2 vendor for the ST, even if not supporting the old TDI compiler and library? That is, providing a library with complete AES, VDI, GEMDOS, BIOS, LineA and XBIOS interfaces? Are there Oberon vendors for Atari ST? Thanks in advance for any information -- vsnyder@jato.Jpl.Nasa.Gov ames!elroy!jato!vsnyder vsnyder@jato.uucp ------------------------------ Date: 22 Mar 91 23:36:13 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!newstop!texsun!conv ex!rosenkra@arizona.edu (William Rosencranz) Subject: Standardized disk layout/folder names To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu plinio@crowe.seas.ucla.edu (Plinio Barbeito) writes: >after i wrote: >>i can propose another alternative: for those capable of running a binary >>patch editor, building in patch space in internal path strings is easy: >> >> char *path = "C:\\GEMPROG\\SUBDIR\\FILE.DAT\0 "; >> >>then you can just hack in a new location (or better yet, provide a simple >>tool to do it for the user. > >I think you've missed the point. To make the ST truly user-friendly, >the user shouldn't have to worry about any of this. yes, i agree in a perfect world you should never have to think about the tools you are using. they should just automagically work. but in the real world there are always trade-offs and restrictions. you have to draw the line somewhere and make some assumptions, ALWAYS based on cost/ benefit (here cost can be development $$$ or time, generally the same thing). general purpose computers are still not for everyone. it would be nice to be able to walk into a room and say "computer: balance my checkbook, then tell me if i am in trouble". right now, we have to deal with files and less easy to use user interfaces. in 20 years we won't. but we'll have other problems. i have not missed the point. doing this and supplying an install program (can even be inside the program) can patch these locations and the user need only do it once. a well written program will manage this for the user. the only assumptuion made is that users understand what folders are and that they differ from files. and i don't see why it would be a problem to have one folder per application either. less sophisticated users are not going to have 2000 applications. more like 5 to 10. when they get to 20-30 applications, they are more sophisticated and you can expect them to know more and ask more of them. i know you are really talking about where to put things for each program. that means something like you said: put all gem binaries in one place, put all rsc in one place, put all readme/docs in one place. this may mean changing some file names (there may be 150 README files). at the same time the true novice may not know that app.prg is the program (.prg is a "standard" name) and that gem programs generally have things called resources, .rsc (note for nitpickers: i know there are lots of programs with imbedded resources and in most cases, not all, this should be more common practice). he only knows what s/he is told. it also means that the novice will have to know more than you may think, organizational things. letting a program do its thing as if it were the only program the user runs is not necessarily bad, since there are users who only do word processing or only play games or only DTP. there is a lot of bad software out there. at the same time you really can't blame developers on the ST for being sloppy. some stuff is ported from other platforms. and the future of the ST is always debatable. your proposal also means getting lots of developers and perhaps atari behind this. i would not hold my breath. i don't think there is a painless solution. i think your ideas are good, but i don't think inertia can be overcome here. it appears that gem applications are more like islands. this is not the case with unix where pipes and other artifacts insure that applications work and play well with each other. look, if i am meeting resistance to something as innocuous as "-help" which is totally invisible, what makes you think 100's of developers are going to adopt your scheme, no matter how reasonable/rational it is? and for the record, i think it IS reasonable/rational. but the real issue is promulgating a standard, not the technical details associated with it. like most human endeavors, it is political. you have to deal with that as well, considering what is the impact with and without said standard. i did't realize how verbose i can get! sorry... -bill rosenkra@convex.com -- Bill Rosenkranz |UUCP: Convex Computer Corp. |ARPA: rosenkra%c1yankee@convex.com ------------------------------ Date: 22 Mar 91 16:41:41 GMT From: hpfcso!mjs@hplabs.hp.com (Marc Sabatella) Subject: standard practices To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu > -debug to turn on internal debugging, if any > -help to print a usage synopsis > -version to print current program version > -changes to print major changes since last rev (or indicate > that this is first rev) As others have commented, debug stuff doesn't belong in a released product, help stuff belongs in a separate "man page" if you really want to be Unix-like, and "what" or "ident" can report version and change history information. >does this sound reasonable? i have adopted this myself for both unix and >TOS. i just wish P1003.2 would say something about this... It (or else XPG2 and XPG3) does say something about your choice of options: they are unacceptable. They bless "getopt" as the means of parsing arguments. This means "-debug" should be interpreted as "-d -e -b -u -g" if any (or all?) of "-e", "-b", "-u" and "-g" are defined as options, or else it could be interpreted as "-d ebug", where "ebug" is an argument to "-d", and optional arguments are forbidden (ie, either an option takes an argument or it doesn't). In general, multi-character options beginning with "-" are frowned upon. Instead, use something like -A,debug -A,help ... or +debug +help ... -------------- Marc Sabatella (marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com) Disclaimers: 2 + 2 = 3, for suitably small values of 2 Bill and Dave may not always agree with me ------------------------------ Date: 21 Mar 91 20:26:04 GMT From: ubc-cs!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!torsqnt!geac!maccs!johns@beaver.cs.washingt on.edu (Conan the Barbarian) Subject: ST Pad specs To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Mar21.080126.22262@ecst.csuchico.edu> ekrimen@ecst.csuchico.edu (Ed Krimen) writes: >[...] >I don't know, but for some reason 'TOS with...handwriting recognition' >doesn't seem to jive, if you know what I mean. :~) > Well, yeah, I guess I do. In case you're wondering, the technology _does_ exist. I think Xerox PARC has stuff like this going. I friend of mine works at Xerox over here etc... >Thanks for posting the information. May I ask where you found it? I >just like to know the sources of these things. :~) The CeBIT article came from a local BBS. The specs on the ST Pad and ST Book came from Atari's BBS here in Markham. They even set up a special area for these computers on the BBS already. >[signature deleted] -- John Schmitt johns@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca !unet!utai!utgpu!maccs!johns ------------------------------ Date: 22 Mar 91 14:09:34 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc. edu!caen!math.lsa.umich.edu!sharkey!cfctech!teemc!ka3ovk!irscscm!mlake@arizona. edu (Marshall Lake) Subject: ST Pad specs To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <27E4E601.1238@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca> johns@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Conan the Barbarian) writes: > >ST PAD >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- [ specs deleted ] Simply incredible!! -- Marshall Lake mlake@irscscm.UUCP !uunet!media!ka3ovk!irscscm!mlake ------------------------------ Date: 23 Mar 91 01:41:07 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!jato!hanauma!hyc@arizona.edu (Howard Chu) Subject: TT REVIEW To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1565@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca> rwa@cs.athabascau.ca (Ross Alexander) writes: >About the serial ports: how many _uarts_ does this machine have, as >opposed to how many connectors appear on the back? Is it one-to-one, >or do perhaps some connectors share a single uart? Also, could some >well informed reader tell me (us) what the uart types for the various >ports are (6850, 8350, 8250, 16650a or what have you)? 5 ports, 4 UARTs. Two are 68901, two are Zilog 8530. One of the 8530s is connected to both a serial port and the "LAN" port, configurable for Localtalk speed (230kbps). Two 68901s are used in the TT as opposed to the single 68901 in STs. I guess they needed another to handle interrupt vectoring for all the new devices... (Oops. Is it really 8350? Whatever. The Zilog chip, same one as used in Mac and Sun.) > >I ask this since I understand that the Mega STe shares a uart between >the LAN port and one of the rs232 ports (implying that you can't >simultaneously converse with both the LAN and a device on the rs232 >port in question). I may be wrong (I hope I am wrong), but I suspect >there's an element of `checklist engineering' here. Correct. -- -- Howard Chu @ Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA Disclaimer: How would I know, I just got here! ------------------------------ Date: 23 Mar 91 05:19:02 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!chaph.usc.edu!aludra.usc.edu!baffoni@arizona.e du (Juxtaposer) Subject: TT REVIEW To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1565@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca> rwa@cs.athabascau.ca (Ross Alexander) writes: > >About the serial ports: how many _uarts_ does this machine have, as >opposed to how many connectors appear on the back? Is it one-to-one, >or do perhaps some connectors share a single uart? Also, could some Yup, the LAN (basically an Appletalk DIN) shares a uart with one of the RS232 ports, so you can't use them at the same time (not that I can think of how I _could_ use them all, let alone more than one serial port, unless I plan on running a multi-line BBS - don't I wish:). Unfortunately I don't have the specs so I can't tell you what uart drives the ports. >-- >-- >Ross Alexander rwa@cs.athabascau.ca (403) 675 6311 ve6pdq >"Go on! Shoot me again! I enjoy it! I love the smell of burnt feathers > and gunpowder and cordite!" -- Daffy Duck, "Duck! Rabbit! Duck!" -Mike ------------------------------ Date: 20 Mar 91 16:07:54 GMT From: ubc-cs!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!torsqnt!geac!maccs!johns@beaver.cs.washingt on.edu (Conan the Barbarian) Subject: What's at CeBIT? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu When is the CeBIT computer show? Anyone heard any news of what is over there from Atari? Last weekend I posted a few articles on some new Atari products, the ST Book and the ST Pad. I haven't seen anyone make any comments on these, and I didn't receive any news here during the weekend, so I wonder if these articles got out to the world. Should I repost or is this old hat and I just poked my head out of the cave? -- John Schmitt johns@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca !unet!utai!utgpu!maccs!johns ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ******************************