========================================================================= INFO-ATARI16 Digest Thu, 21 Dec 89 Volume 89 : Issue 843 Today's Topics: Facts, not only talking about them. Genie--Usenet Improving this newsgroup Posting problems solved Usenet-->GEnie USENET -> GEnie uplink now working (4 msgs) v03INF3: Change to posting format Wanted: GEM .IMG file conversion software Where did the binaries go? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 16 Dec 89 08:04:09 GMT From: cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!newstop!grapevine!koreth%panarthea.ebay.sun.com@tut.cis. ohio-state.edu (Steven Grimm) Subject: Facts, not only talking about them. Message-ID: <34959@grapevine.uucp> In article <1888@atari.UUCP> apratt@atari.UUCP (Allan Pratt) writes: >Ralph Haglund, please don't do that again. You are posting information >from Atari developer documentation, which is both copyright by Atari >and released under nondisclosure agreements to Atari developers. I believe the original article said that it was a translation of something from a German ST magazine. If that's true, it's the magazine that deserves the lashing, and not Ralph. He never signed a nondisclosure agreement with the magazine or (presumably) with Atari. --- " !" - Marcel Marceau Steven Grimm Moderator, comp.?sources,binaries?.atari.st koreth@ebay.sun.com ...!sun!ebay!koreth ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 89 10:56:00 EST From: "Gerry Greenberg: 315-443-5378" Subject: Genie--Usenet I wasn't going to comment on this thread, but since others are, I thought I might as well, too. I agree with those who have stated that the one way direction of info from Usenet to Genie is not fair. There is a two way mail capability with Compuserv and with MCI Mail, why shouldn't there be a two way capability with Genie...if they want it to be just for mail, fine...if they want to get more than just that, then they should give more, too. The thing is--I like Genie. I gave up my Compuserv membership when they instituted a monthly charge (that really made me mad, considering they had enlisted my help previously to write to the Congress and voice my objection to an "access" charge...then after Congress did not impose an access charge, they went and instituted what was essentially an access charge to me, only they get to pocket all the $$s!), but it is much to their credit that they allow a two-way exchange of mail. I hope that anything done with Genie will be a "two-way street" as well! ---Gerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 89 10:40:45 EST From: Marcelino Bernardo Subject: Improving this newsgroup JOHNBARNES@ENH.NIST.GOV expressed some opinions about the future of this newsgroup which I mostly agree with. There are a few statements, however, which I don't agree with based on my own limited experience. "I note that many of the questions that are asked here (at considerable expense, I might note) have been answered in the magazines." I've found the magazines that are/were available in my area: STart, ST Log, STXpress and Atari Explorer are seriously lacking in technical information (I would exclude Dave Small's column in STart). Coverage of Public Domain and Shareware is inadequate. I've seen a letter to STart asking for a terminal emulation software for a Tektronix 4010 terminal go unanswered when Uniterm has existed for years. "It appears that there is a tendency to post the burning question of the moment to the net when a little research in a library would yield a quicker and sounder ouutcome. Magazines like Current Notes and ST Informer, and to some extent z-Mag and ST REports, have solid technical information that is more useful than some of the spur of the moment responses that get passed around here...." I have not yet found a library in my area (New Jersey) that has any of the ST magazines you mentioned. I can't even find one ST book in a library or a bookstore. Under the circumstances, this net is the best place that I expect to get informed answers to technical questions. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Dec 89 16:15:05 GMT From: pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!cs.utexas.edu!sun- barr!newstop!panarthea.ebay.sun.com!koreth@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Steven Grimm) Subject: Posting problems solved Message-ID: <5813@newstop.EBay.Sun.COM> Well, it seems that the problem with comp.binaries.atari.st was due to my local news server (grapevine), which I've just fixed. I'll be reposting everything from MAS forward. (And likewise for comp.sources.atari.st.) --- " !" - Marcel Marceau Steven Grimm Moderator, comp.?sources,binaries?.atari.st koreth@ebay.sun.com ...!sun!ebay!koreth ------------------------------ Date: 21 Dec 89 13:46:41 GMT From: rochester!rit!ultb!rcc9885@rutgers.edu (R.C. Costello) Subject: Usenet-->GEnie Message-ID: <1816@ultb.isc.rit.edu> In article <12486@cbnews.ATT.COM> nrc@cbnews.ATT.COM (neal.r.caldwell..ii) writes: > >I agree whole heartedly! This arrangement puts money into GEnie and >does the net absolutely no good. Dave, you've done a lot of good things >for the Atari community but please put a stop to this before it goes any >further. > I think you are looking at this the wrong way!! So what if GEnie is a profit orientented business. If you want to put up you own UUCP site its going to cost you $$$. You would most likely then pass this charge on to anyone who uses your system. They get USENET out of the deal and you get money for up-keep. Why is it that everyone has to get something from something. Why can't you except the fact that this link will give you the ability to Email to MANY MANY more people. In turn, they get to read comp.sys.atari.st, where all the techie stuff is (ha! :) ) I don't see how effects anyone single person in anyway other than allowing them a wider communication area. Now I will be able to send mail to a friends in Cape Cod and Connecticut FREE of CHARGE for me. Of course they have to pay, but oh well. I don't see how you can look at this link any different than the link you are using. The only thing I would change is allow them to post to USENET, maybe mail to some spooler that will post the message instead of mailing it.. I've been QUIETLY reading USENET for 2 1/2 years now, and have found it not to be as HIGH tech (ST gurus) as its made out to be. I have found it to be a GREAT source of information however, but only becuase I have had the ability to MAIL my questions to someone at DC Utilities (Thanks guys!) or some on at Atari, and now, Dave Small. I think you all just want something for nothing! Dave, its a GREAT Idea, and I hope you get mail working SOON! > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >"Don't drive too slowly." Richard Caldwell > AT&T Network Systems > nrc@cbnews > att!cbnews!nrc > (614) 860-2206 +-----------------+-----------------------------------------------------------+ | Where Am I? |X| "Of course I made a backup copy, actually I made two, the_| +-----------------+--------+ first one was too light." - typical IBM user |X| | rcc9885@ultb.isc.rit.edu +--------------------------------------------------+ | rcc9885@ultb.edu _| | | | Atari ST: The BIGGEST and FASTEST and | | rcc9885@ritvax.BITNET |X| | | | most POWERFUL computer in the whole _| +--------------------------+ / | \ entire ... Well, um, I still like it.|X| | I don't work for anyone, +-------------------------------------------+------+ | so, it doesn' matter _| NOTE: Now if I could only have this many_| | what I think. |X| windows open under GEM! |X| +--------------------------+-------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 89 11:28:36 EST From: Marcelino Bernardo Subject: USENET -> GEnie uplink now working Here is my vote against the uplink. It should be two-way or none at all. Regards, Marcelino Bernardo mbernar@erenj.bitnet ------------------------------ Date: 20 Dec 89 00:58:17 GMT From: zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!newstop!grapevine!kore th%panarthea.ebay.sun.com@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Steven Grimm) Subject: USENET -> GEnie uplink now working Message-ID: <34975@grapevine.uucp> In article <935@crash.cts.com> canada@crash.cts.com (Diane Barlow Close) writes: >I don't like Usenet being >``raped'' to supply GEnie's commercial pockets. I agree. The only way I'd support this would be if someone would write a quick newsgathering/reading program for the ST, and put it up in GEnie's program section. UUPC will mostly work as a base for this. I bet most GEnie subscribers won't be aware that they could be getting the USENET messages for free. Portal, at least, is inexpensive enough that it doesn't make much difference, but trying to keep up with comp.sys.atari.st over GEnie (especially in an area that only has a 1200-baud WhateverNetGEnieUses link) could get quite expensive. >If GEnie is that ``tapped >out'' for knowledge that they are desperate enough to plunder Usenet, then >perhaps GEnie should be disbanded. Or make them carry rec.humor and talk.bizarre. --- " !" - Marcel Marceau Steven Grimm Moderator, comp.?sources,binaries?.atari.st koreth@ebay.sun.com ...!sun!ebay!koreth ------------------------------ Date: 21 Dec 89 17:13:13 GMT From: cs.utexas.edu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!watserv1!bmaraldo@tut.cis.ohio-stat e.edu (Commander Brett Maraldo) Subject: USENET -> GEnie uplink now working Message-ID: <457@watserv1.waterloo.edu> After giving this topic some serious thought, here is my opinion. I agree with the previous poster who stated that we either have 2-way communication with GEnie or nothing at all. I think this would be fair, where-as one-way communication is not fair at all. If two-way communication is not installed or the USENET->GEnie uplink isn't removed I'd be willing to cast an official vote (what ever that means :-) against the uplink. Brett L Maraldo -- -------- Unit 36 Research --------- "Alien Technology Today" bmaraldo@watserv1.UWaterloo.ca ?uunet!clyde!utai?!watserv1!bmaraldo ------------------------------ Date: 20 Dec 89 20:50:06 GMT From: thelake!steve@UMN-CS.CS.UMN.EDU (Steve Yelvington) Subject: USENET -> GEnie uplink now working Message-ID: <1120891450065830@thelake.UUCP> (In regard to the availability of Usenet postings on GEnie) ... In article <935@crash.cts.com>, canada@crash.cts.com (Diane Barlow Close) writes ... >Hmmm, I don't think this is very fair to the Usenet community, and I, for >one, object to Usenet being used in such a commercial way. I have no >objection to two-way *mail* links, but I seriously object to all my >postings appearing on GEnie or other commercial networks. I think, >perhaps, the Usenet ``etiquette'' gods may have something to say about all >this as well. An argument could be mounted that Usenet has no gods, only a handful of people who occasionally lapse into delusions of godhood. :-) The best description of Usenet that I have heard is "barely controlled chaos." What is wrong with GEnie making the data available? Is it that GEnie makes a profit? By far the majority of Usenet sites are for-profit companies. Or at least they *try* to make a profit. Is it that GEnie charges for access to the data? That standard would equally condemn WELL, Portal and even Crash Timesharing (pnet01 charges for access, according to the nixpub listing). And the universities certainly tend to charge a pretty stiff tuition these days. So scratch them, too. Is it that GEnie somehow prevents free access to the data? Consider that most corporate Usenet sites don't allow *any* public access. GE makes it available to more people, not less. >What I object to the most is the fact that the link is one way (and will >stay that way due to GEnie's commercial nature). I don't like Usenet being >``raped'' to supply GEnie's commercial pockets. If GEnie is that ``tapped >out'' for knowledge that they are desperate enough to plunder Usenet, then >perhaps GEnie should be disbanded. Plunder is a pretty strong word. Usenet, as in "the community of users who have agreed to freely share data," is not diminished. On the contrary, it is GEnie that is at risk. As more people become aware of Usenet, they may choose to patronize one of the many public-access Unix systems rather than the controlled, centralized, regimented -- and commercial -- services. -- Steve Yelvington at the (frozen enough to skate!) lake in Minnesota UUCP: ... pwcs.StPaul.GOV!stag!thelake!steve ------------------------------ Date: 9 Dec 89 20:07:42 GMT From: usc!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!newstop!grapevine!koreth%panarthea.ebay.sun.com@ucsd .edu (Steven Grimm) Subject: v03INF3: Change to posting format Message-ID: <34935@grapevine.uucp> The votes are in on changing from shar to uue-?zoo,arc? format, and the uues have it. I'll try to regularly (once per volume) post pointers to source code for the various archiving and decoding programs, and make sure that they're available on the panarthea archive. Some notable comments: >From: tim@brspyr1.brs.com (Tim Northrup) > >Both ZOO and ARC are now commonly available on Unix systems (much more so >than when comp.sources.atari.st was started), so why bother with a shar >file? >From: Ron Abramson > >It seems to me that if uuencoded arc files are good enough for >comp.binaries.atari.st, then they ought to be good enough for >comp.sources.atari.st > >I don't understand why a person (be it a he or she :??) should need >to learn a new technique to retrieve source files. >From: sluka@stoch.fmi.uni-passau.de (Bernd Sluka) > >I always un-shar your sources and repack them as arc- or zoo-archives >on my sun before transfering them to the st via an PC-clone. >So in my point of view it would be better to use uue'd arc- or zoo-files >for the sources, too. And one of the few dissenting votes, >From: saj@chinet.chi.il.us (Stephen Jacobs) > >I like to keep sources in readable form. What you might do is dictate a >particular shar format, and provide tools to create and disassemble those >files in the monthly posting. --- " !" - Marcel Marceau Steven Grimm Moderator, comp.?sources,binaries?.atari.st koreth@ebay.sun.com ...!sun!ebay!koreth ------------------------------ Date: 21 Dec 89 12:19:11 GMT From: mcsun!ukc!edcastle!hwcs!greg@uunet.uu.net (Greg Michaelson) Subject: Wanted: GEM .IMG file conversion software Message-ID: <3996@brahma.cs.hw.ac.uk> Does anyone have: a) a definitive description of the GEM .IMG format? I have a description but it's inconsistent with what's actually in .IMG files. b) software in C to convert .IMG files to bitmaps suitable for use with GEM object software? Sorry if this has been requested before - I'm new to this group. Greg Michaelson ------------------------------ Date: 21 Dec 89 03:16:08 GMT From: pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!sun- barr!newstop!grapevine!koreth%panarthea.ebay.sun.com@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Steven Grimm) Subject: Where did the binaries go? Message-ID: <34978@grapevine.uucp> In article <103311@ti-csl.csc.ti.com> parker@vlsic2.vlsic2.ti.com (James Parker) writes: >richard@jane.uh.edu writes: > >>Whappened to Comp.sys.atari.st? The last binary that I have received was >>dated Oct. 4 1989. Is any one else having this problem or are the files >>just not geeting through to this sight. >I was just wondering myself. I haven't seen anything new in comp.binaries >OR comp.sources.atari.st for what seems like months now. Okay, there seem to be widespread distribution problems these days. I have no idea why. If anyone HAS received the files listed below, please drop me a line. (I have the sneaking suspicion that the have-nots outnumber the haves here, and I'd rather not be deluged with mail.) This is the tail-end of the comp.binaries.atari.st archive index. volume8/formdoc/part01 Documentation for FORM in ASCII volume8/formdoc/part02 volume8/formdoc/part03 volume8/formdoc/part04 volume8/formdoc/part05 volume8/formdoc/part06 -- VOLUME 9 -- volume9/dhrystone Dhrystone benchmark program volume9/gemfst13/part01 AES and VDI bindings, v 1.3 volume9/gemfst13/part02 volume9/gemfst13/part03 volume9/quix Game: fill up the screen volume9/cleo Enhance the TOS get-input-line routine volume9/tostrace Trace calls to TOS functions volume9/tosvers Tell version of TOS ------------------------------ End of INFO-ATARI16 Digest V89 Issue #843 *****************************************