INFO-ATARI16 Digest Thu, 2 Nov 89 Volume 89 : Issue 598 Today's Topics: atari-bashing/vaporware Bashing mania Calamus PD and Shareware fonts GDOS and Postscript GNU C and sizeof(int) PageStream 1.80 Spectre GCR Drive speed TT's VME-slots WordPerfect and the ST ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 2 Nov 89 23:11:11 GMT From: b.ee.engr.uky.edu!parsons@g.ms.uky.edu (Greg Parsons) Subject: atari-bashing/vaporware Well, as a matter of fact, you CAN buy a 1450XLD... A limited few of them WERE made, and sold. Seriously! -- parsons@b.ee.engr.uky.edu Born with a stearing wheel in my hand, and lead in my feet! The small furry one... Rat All statements belong to someone, who I'm not quite sure..... ------------------------------ Date: 2 Nov 89 20:05:05 GMT From: asuvax!hrc!force!covertr@handies.ucar.edu (Richard E. Covert) Subject: Bashing mania In article <2201@hudson.acc.virginia.edu>, gl8f@astsun.astro.Virginia.EDU (Greg Lindahl) writes: > In article <4694c052.20b6d@apollo.HP.COM> rehrauer@apollo.HP.COM (Steve Rehrauer) writes: > > > Yes, but NeXT put a defacto standard page-description language, PostScript, > > into its interface. > > The NeXT Postscript for its printer is almost exactly like Ultrascript > for the ST, except the NeXT also uses Postscript for its display, > while the ST uses GDOS. GDOS, by the way, can drive the Atari Laser Printer > to "it's fullest" in many respects. > > Richard Convert is not exactly the best expert for opinions concerning > the capabilities of Atari hardware. > > ------ > Greg Lindahl > gl8f@virginia.edu I'm not the NRA. Well, I have owned an Atari SLM804 laser printer for over 18 months. Have you Greg?? And I can tell you from personal experience that GDOS is at best a clumsy interface. Sure, GDOS may allow 300 dpi printer on the SLM804 but so does PostScript. An PS has an almost infinite source of fonts. Where do you get GDOS fonts?? Well, you can design your own, but that is very time consuming. Or you can try to convert Mac fonts to GDOS using the FONTZ! program from Michtron. But, with GDOS you need to create a separate font for each font point size. So, a single Mac font, or PS font, will convert to a separate font for EACH point size, and for EACH output resolution. So, you need a low/hi rez screen font, a med rez screen font, a 9 pin printer font, a 24 pin printer font, a 300 dpi laser printer font, etc. And as the font size increases the size of the font file increases. So, a 300dpi 48 point font could be over 500K bytes!! And that is just for the printer font!! Figure that you will need at least ONE screen font so the 48 point font could take over a megabyte of disk space. And system memory. How many LARGE fonts can you load into 4 megs of RAM?? Also, you need to load EACH GDOS font into memory to be used. So, your bootup time increases, and your available memory decreases as you install fonts. I can tell you from personal experience that a ST with the SLM804 lp is TOTALLY useless for graphics w/o at LEAST 4 megs of system memory. and I would like even more but my Great Business Computer, the Mega ST can't handle more then 4 megs. And there aren't any mega slot card to expand beyond 4 megs. Also, there are many programs which use GDOS and which are incompatible. So, it is a trial and error approach to using GDOS. And finally, in order to use GDOS you have to write an ASSIGN.SYS file which is read by GDOS at bootup. And it is almost a Black Art to write your first ASSIGN.SYS!! If you think that GDOS is a PLUS for the ST then you should read messages on GEnie. People have more problems with GDOS then any other aspect of the ST. And then you have to get a good GDOS driver for your printer. Luckily I have a half-way decent SLM804 GDOS driver, but for a novice ST GDOS user it is frustrating to the nth degree. Just last night I read a message on GEnie verifying this. A friend, Craig Daymon, wrote a GREAT shareware program called MANUAL MAKER which prints out text files double sided. It prints all of the front and then all of the back sides. It works GREAT on my SLM804. But it uses GDOS. And last night Craig got a message from a new MM user who couldn't get MM to print on his 24 pin printer. Turns out that he had a bad 24 pin printer GDOS driver. So, the new MM user has to BUY a 24 pin printer GDOS driver from Neocept or Migraph. GDOS does add versatility to the ST. You can print out to many more devices then say a Mac could. But, GDOS is clumsy to use, requires megabytes of disk storage to hold the fonts, and many megabytes of system memory to run the fonts. And a GDOS Wizard to install it the first time!! sorry to have gone on so long but GDOS is complicated and future users need to know that it IS hard. I would be happy to post some sample ASSIGN.SYS files if folks want them. Also, I just saw a ShareWare program called ASSASSIN on GEnie. It is supposed to be a GEM program to write ASSIGN.SYS files. I haven't tried it yet though. So, don't give up on GDOS. P.S. I have gotten MS WRITE, MANUAL MAKER, EASY DRAW, and TIMEWORK's PUBLISHER ST to work with GDOS. P.P.S. But GPLUS from Codehead Software. GPLUS is a GDOS substitute which takes much of the pain out of installing GDOS fonts, and it is much quicker then GDOS. And excellent product. Richard Covert ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Nov 89 17:07:54 EST From: David Megginson Subject: Calamus PD and Shareware fonts Since I mentioned that there were over 50 PD and shareware Calamus fonts already available, I've been swamped with requests for more information. I called ISD, and they're working hard on Outline, so do not write to them for copies of the PD fonts. The official source of Calamus support software, including PD fonts, is Genie in the Atari Library (p.476). Call up menu #8 and go into library #30, which is the ISD customer support library. I am not on Genie, and I do not use PD fonts (we have almost half of the CG fonts now), so I cannot help. Could someone please start posting the PD fonts to the net? There is a lot of interest. David Megginson, Centre for Medieval Studies, Toronto ------------------------------ Date: 2 Nov 89 21:43:53 GMT From: haven!uvaarpa!hudson!astsun8.astro.Virginia.EDU!gl8f@purdue.edu (Greg Lindahl) Subject: GDOS and Postscript In article <814@carroll1.UUCP> dnewton@carroll1.UUCP (Dave 'Post No Nicknames' Newton) writes: > It's nice that GDOS can drive the SM804 (or whatever the atari laser is >called) to "it's fullest" in many respects, but it's still not standard. I >think PostScript would have been better so we Atari folks could transfer >PostScript files to other machines which is sometimes useful. Well, you can do it two different ways. The Mac uses essentially two different systems to image things: QuickDraw for the screen, and Postscript for their "good" laser printers. This means your application needs to know two different ways to generate output, and has to be able to make them look the same. Read comp.sys.mac someday and you'll see the occasional screams about this. Alternately, you can use the same system for both the screen and the printer. NeXT does this by using Postscript for both. But that's expensive in both licensing cost and CPU and memory. The ST does it using GDOS. Now your application can do it either way. You can use GDOS for both, or GDOS for the screen and generate Postscript/Ultrascript for the printer. Or, you can use your own outline font system for both. You'll find desktop publishing programs that use each of these strategies. You get different costs and different features with each approach. It would be nice if someone would write an outline font GDOS replacement. Then we could have more of the nice features of Postscript without paying the price in speed. Additionally, it is possible (if you know the resolution of the output Postscript device) to automatically translate GDOS metafiles into Postscript. Anyone want to make a not-so-quick buck? ------ Greg Lindahl gl8f@virginia.edu I'm not the NRA. ------------------------------ Date: 2 Nov 89 21:40:06 GMT From: oahu!stephen@cs.ucla.edu (Steve Whitney) Subject: GNU C and sizeof(int) In article <30975@watmath.waterloo.edu> rbutterworth@watmath.waterloo.edu (Ray Butterworth) writes: >Has anyone made a 16-bit GCC and library and done a comparison? You can always use this simple hack: #define int short But you have to be careful with constants. If you pass 3 as an argument to a routine expecting a 16 bit integer, it will pass 00 00 00 03 instead of 00 03. To get around that, pass your constants as (short)3 instead. Of course if you haven't written your program yet, just write stuff to use shorts instead of ints. Steve Whitney "It's never _really_ the last minute" (())_-_(()) UCLA Comp. Sci. Grad. Student | (* *) | Internet: stephen@cs.ucla.edu UCLA Bruin--> ? \_@_/ ? GEnie: S.WHITNEY `-----' ------------------------------ Date: 2 Nov 89 18:08:52 GMT From: asuvax!hrc!force!covertr@handies.ucar.edu (Richard E. Covert) Subject: PageStream 1.80 PageStream 1.80 for The ST Ships!! I have owned Soft-logik's products since the original Publishing Partner was released back in 1987. I still use PP 1.03 instead of Page Stream as I was never satisfied with the reliability of PgS 1.5. Well, I don't have PgS 1.80 yet, but I did get a real nice package in the US Mail from Soft-Logik. The package was 70 page, small-manual sized newsletter titled "Soft-Logik Review Vol. II, No. 1". I was surprised to receive the newsletter as I haven't heard anythin from SL in six months. I had tried PgS 1.5 was decided that Calamus 1.09 was better. So, I stopped reading GEnie messages, and talking to SL. The newsletter is very nicely organized with an attractive cover page, a Table Of Contents, six appendices, and an index. The newsletter is designed to slip into your PgS manual binder, which is a nice touch. The newsletter describes the new features in PgS 1.80, how to order it, and the SL BBS. The next chapter (section) describes two new features, irregular text runaround and Rotation. There is a chapter on PostScript printing, and a new Beginners Tutorial. the Beginners Tutorial shows how to install the PgS software, and gives a sample personalized letterhead and document. The newsletter ends with two chapters on additional products for PgS. One chapter covers fonts and other SL products. The last chapter is probably the best part of this newsletter. It is a collection of third party fonts, cliparts, and PgS designs. There are samples of many of the fonts and some of the clip art. So, you can view the fonts before purchasing them. SL has even included ads for text special effects produced with PgS. One ad is for business cards prepared by Roland Steele in duncacville Texas. All in all, I am impressed by this newsletter. I especially liked the third party ads which show the support that Soft-logik provides third party vendors. It is enough to encourage someone to develop PgS fonts or docs and submit them to SL. I congratulate Soft-Logik on a fine newsletter. I will submit a review of PgS 1.80 once I get my update from SL. I sent them a check (only $10 for this update!!) today. Rich Covert ------------------------------ Date: 2 Nov 89 23:35:01 GMT From: cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!2fhdbeak@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu Subject: Spectre GCR Drive speed I have a question for all the Happy Users of the Spectre GCR. I know from experience with the old Spectre that it was significantly faster than a Mac Plus when doing drive I/O to native Spectre/Magic Sac disks. Is this speed lost when the new GCR reads/writes to Mac GCR disks, or is it the same or faster than a Mac? Thanks, Jim Sisul ------------------------------ Date: 2 Nov 89 20:22:25 GMT From: asuvax!hrc!force!covertr@handies.ucar.edu (Richard E. Covert) Subject: TT's VME-slots In article <2202@hudson.acc.virginia.edu>, gl8f@astsun.astro.Virginia.EDU (Greg Lindahl) writes: > In article <4695035f.14a1f@force.UUCP> covertr@force.UUCP (Richard E. Covert) writes: > > >Well, that's the answer then. The MEga lacks "profit potential"> I wondered > >why no cards are being marketed for the Mega ST. > > There are cards for the Mega. OK, just tell me about these Mega cards?? The oNLY one I can buy, off the shelf is for the Moniterm 19" monochrome monitor. And, if Atari still haves them, just maybe a Math Coprocessor Mega card. But, my dealer doesn't stock the Math Coprocessor card, so I don't know about it for sure. Please, tell me about all of those Mega cards!! > > >Internal high speed modem?? Nope. > > Why internal? Get it on RS232 and then it doesn't have to be VME or TT > specific. Because internal IBM modem cards are cheaper then external modems. Just price them yourself. So, an internal modem for the TT should be cheaper then an external modem. As far as resale value goes, a used modem is only worth 50% of retail at best. And even less as faster modems are introduced. > > >You see there are lots of potential internal addons for the TT. > > Yes, things like D/A boards. But many conventional type devices ought > NOT go in an internal slot, especially when you can take a product and > sell it for the Mac *AND* ST *AND* TT because it interfaces to SCSI. > > You can continue to loudly claim that you have the right answers. But you > have no proof, and you make little sense. > > ------ > Greg Lindahl > gl8f@virginia.edu I'm not the NRA. Furthermore, wouldn't it be nice for Atari to sell a truly open system and let the Marketplace decide what to add to it. I place a lot more faith in third party vendor then I do in Atari!! So, if the TT Tower EVER comes out, which I have very serious doubts about, I might consider another Atari computer. But the TT Plastic is just another closed, limited support, game machine to me. P.S. Do you know why Atari Corp doesn't just quit pretending to be a SERIOUS computer vendor and go back to making Game Machines?? Could it be because of the Atari Stock Prospectus filed with the USA SEC?? which says that Atari will make COMPUTERS?? If Atari stopped pretending to make computers and concentrated on making GAME MACHINES, they make commit fraud?? Actually, the TT sounds like one hell of a GOOD Game Machine!! IT should be marketted as such!!! *************** GOOD NEWS SECTION ******************************* Craig Daymon wrote an excellent ShareWare program called MANUAL MAKER. MM is used to print out hlaf-page sized manuals, on double sided printouts. MM has macros which allow for bold, italic,underlinging, footers, and headers. It is GDOS, but given good GDOS fonts you can make excellent printouts. MM prints out all even pages and allows you to re-feed the sheets to print the odd pages on the back side. MM has some canned cover sheets you can use. Unfortunately, MM doesn't allow you to include graphics. but, Craig has indicated that with the proper encouragement (shareware $$) he could add such. Craig asks $15 for MM. Please connect Craig on GEnie. I will post his name and address here if asked. All in all, Manual Maker is execellent for printing out small manuals. ****************************************************************** Rich Covert ------------------------------ Date: 02 NOV 89 15:00:38 CST From: Z4648252 Subject: WordPerfect and the ST Mark Johnson writes: > That seems strange, since Word Perfect Corp took their ST version off >the shelf and put the Amiga version there instead. How so? WordPerfect has just released their new version for the ST and is asking for input on new features. Such statements as these are neither helpful or of benefit to anyone. Larry Rymal: |East Texas Atari 68NNNers| ------------------------------ End of INFO-ATARI16 Digest V89 Issue #598 ***************************************** =========================================================================